I have come across the following site http://w.w.ii-documentation.ww2.klup.info/...i01&t=0&c=19517 seems as if it would be a valuable source for any one looking for information about Axis Generals etc. It also list collaborators by country including "Known Members of the Britisches Freikorps". Can't vouch for the accuracy but it looks interesting. Chris
I was astounded by the number of General Officers who either committed suicide or were executed - I hadn't realized that there were quite so many _ I would be interested in members views on these numbers (if they are accurate - they seem to be) - is there a parallel in any other conflict? Chris
Originally posted by 8th KRI@Jul 20 2005, 07:15 AM I was astounded by the number of General Officers who either committed suicide or were executed - I hadn't realized that there were quite so many _ I would be interested in members views on these numbers (if they are accurate - they seem to be) - is there a parallel in any other conflict? Chris [post=36639]Quoted post[/post] Generals etc did not fare well across the board. I have a list about German Generals from various sources and the numbers always astounded me. 84 German Generals were executed by Hitler. (would have been much less before the assassination plot) 33% of German Generals deaths were caused by Air attacks. Germany lost 136 Generals, or an average of one every fortnight. Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat. The average German officer slot had to be refilled in excess of 9 times. Geoff
For some reason I can't get the above link to work but using the Internet Archive I see that the link just redirect you to Michael Miller's excellent site Axis Biographical Research which I only can recommend http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/ Germany was not the only country where the phrase: "generals dies in bed" did not apply Army generals who died between 1939 and1945 for various reasons: Total Australia 10 Belgium 3 Bulgaria 8 Canada 11 China 35 (55) Croatia 41 Czechoslovakia 15 Denmark 1 Estonia 12 Finland 7 France 120 Great Britain 66 Greece 5 Hungary 7 Italy 31 Japan 59 (64) Latvia 21 Lithuania 7 New Zealand 7 Norway 1 Poland 32 Romania 17 South Africa 3 Soviet Union 468 The Netherlands 6 USA 45 Yugoslavia This is out of 7705 generals whose year of death that I have identified out of 15154 listed in my database. The numbers in the brackets for China and Japan is for 1932-1945. Of course not all of these were killed in action, but many did face a violent death especially the Soviet generals who lost 245 as KIAs, while other felt the wreath of Stalin or Hitler in prison or summarily execution. Kind Regards Steen Ammentorp The Generals of World War II
Steen - it seems to be the same site, I am surprised at the numbers of British Generals who died, it would be interesting to see a breakdown of how many were KIA, also I wonder what percentage of the total ended their days in this way. The German figures for executed and committed suicide does seem high, I guess this is symptomatic of the regime, the figures do appear to include those who killed themselves after capture and post Nuremburg. Chris
Originally posted by Steen Ammentorp@Jul 21 2005, 01:18 AM For some reason I can't get the above link to work but using the Internet Archive I see that the link just redirect you to Michael Miller's excellent site Axis Biographical Research which I only can recommend http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/ Germany was not the only country where the phrase: "generals dies in bed" did not apply Army generals who died between 1939 and1945 for various reasons: Total Australia 10 Belgium 3 Bulgaria 8 Canada 11 China 35 (55) Croatia 41 Czechoslovakia 15 Denmark 1 Estonia 12 Finland 7 France 120 Great Britain 66 Greece 5 Hungary 7 Italy 31 Japan 59 (64) Latvia 21 Lithuania 7 New Zealand 7 Norway 1 Poland 32 Romania 17 South Africa 3 Soviet Union 468 The Netherlands 6 USA 45 Yugoslavia This is out of 7705 generals whose year of death that I have identified out of 15154 listed in my database. The numbers in the brackets for China and Japan is for 1932-1945. Of course not all of these were killed in action, but many did face a violent death especially the Soviet generals who lost 245 as KIAs, while other felt the wreath of Stalin or Hitler in prison or summarily execution. Kind Regards Steen Ammentorp The Generals of World War II [post=36678]Quoted post[/post] H Steen, Did you have a number for Yugoslavia? Great info.........Thanks! Geoff
No doubt its a good site,.. however, is it only me or it is not there,.. i cannot locate Gen.dPz Wilhem Ritter von Thoma, captured by British on 1942 at alamein and died on 1948 in British camp. This men, like Rommel, held a special place among the british during that time. Casualties of Waffen SS' high ranks in casualties should also be included as it was also part of major combatants. eg Theodor Eicke, fritz witt etc...
Originally posted by 8th KRI+Jul 20 2005, 09:24 PM-->(8th KRI @ Jul 20 2005, 09:24 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I am surprised at the numbers of British Generals who died, it would be interesting to see a breakdown of how many were KIA, also I wonder what percentage of the total ended their days in this way. [/b] Of the 66 British generals that died between 1939 and 1945 15 were KIA. However mind you that my database also includes brigadiers. Brigadiers are not generally recognized as a general rank. I have nevertheless included the rank because brigadiers often held positions equal to brigadier-generals in other countries. Only 7 "true" British generals were KIAs, these: Major-General Arthur Edward Barstow (1888-1942) Major-General John C. Campell (1894-1942) Lieutenant-General Herbert Lumsden (1897-1945) Lieutenant-General Vyvyan Vavasour Pope (1891-1941) Major-General Tom Gordon Rennie (1900-1945) Major-General Justice Crosland Tilly (1888-1941) Major-General Dermot Frederick William Warren (1895-1945) This is out of a total of 2560 British generals listed in my database. Btw. This can be done for each nation using the search functions on my website. Originally posted by spidge@Jul 20 2005, 11:04 PM Did you have a number for Yugoslavia? As with Yugoslavia which I somehow forgot. You enter the search section and choose the Nation: Yugoslavia. Then: Died in the period 1939 – 1945, and remember to check off Death must be known. If you want the KIAs just write: "killed in action" in assignment field. Currently such a search will tell you that 10 Yugoslav generals died before the end of 1945. However I am add the moment work on the Yugoslav generals adding new information and new generals and the number is higher as several died as prisoner of war. <!--QuoteBegin-GUMALANGI@Jul 21 2005, 01:17 AM however, is it only me or it is not there,.. i cannot locate Gen.dPz Wilhem Ritter von Thoma, captured by British on 1942 at alamein and died on 1948 in British camp. This men, like Rommel, held a special place among the british during that time. Ritter von Thoma is list on the site. He is listed under T for Thoma See: http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRMACH...l-Heer_S-T.html Ritter means Knight and it was a title that he acquired when he was decorated with the Knight Cross of the Bavarian Military-Max-Joseph Order in 1916. He was born Wilhelm Thoma. Kind Regards Steen Ammentorp The Generals of World War II
Ritter von Thoma is list on the site. He is listed under T for Thoma See: http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRMACH...l-Heer_S-T.html Ritter means Knight and it was a title that he acquired when he was decorated with the Knight Cross of the Bavarian Military-Max-Joseph Order in 1916. He was born Wilhelm Thoma. Thanks for the infos, another thing, what does it take for German Officer to attain Nobility status, as for Gen. Von Thoma it is the Knight,.or Gen Manteuffel with Freiherr(baron). I see that not all of Ritter Kreuz holder or pour le merit attained such Nobility status. Thank you
Originally posted by GUMALANGI@Jul 21 2005, 05:23 PM Thanks for the infos, another thing, what does it take for German Officer to attain Nobility status, as for Gen. Von Thoma it is the Knight,.or Gen Manteuffel with Freiherr(baron). I see that not all of Ritter Kreuz holder or pour le merit attained such Nobility status. [post=36702]Quoted post[/post] Well – in the case of Thoma the title comes with the Knight Cross of the Bavarian Military-Max-Joseph Order. This is also case of i.e. the two German Field Marshals Wilhelm Ritter von Leeb or Robert Ritter von Greim. It is a purely personal title i.e. Wilhelm Ritter von Leeb's brother, who became a general was just Emil Leeb. To my knowledge the Bavarian Military-Max-Joseph Order was the only Germany order which gave the holder the right to use the title Ritter. Nevertheless there may have been other orders from southern German states that gave the title. The Bavarian Military-Max-Joseph Order was only bestowed as long as Bavaria was an independent Kingdom, so it wasn't awarded after 1918. As I said it was a personal title, not inheritable, and it was only a practice common in southern German states and Austro-Hungary, where you also find the title Edler (Esquire) as a personal title. After Hungary became independent in 1918 the order Vitézi Rend (Order of the Valiant) was established and gave its holder the right to use the title vitéz as Colonel-General Béla vitéz Dálnoki-Miklos. Other German titles such Graf (Count), Freiherr (Baron) or Reichsfreiherr (Imperial Baron ?) were inheritable. However in Germany is not just the oldest son who inherits the title – All sons inherit the title. The German "von" (from) and "zu" (to) also indicates nobility (junker) but without any specific title. Kind Regards Steen Ammentorp The Generals of World War II
Major-General Dermot Frederick William Warren (1895-1945) First a correction to the above. Warren wasn't KIA. He died in an air crash on 11th february 1945. (Not in update yet). And I have made an update of the database bringing the Japanese number to 69(75) and the Yugoslav to 17. Not finished yet though. Kind Regards Steen Ammentorp The Generals of World War II
Originally posted by Steen Ammentorp@Aug 29 2005, 03:16 AM Major-General Dermot Frederick William Warren (1895-1945) First a correction to the above. Warren wasn't KIA. He died in an air crash on 11th february 1945. (Not in update yet). And I have made an update of the database bringing the Japanese number to 69(75) and the Yugoslav to 17. Not finished yet though. Kind Regards Steen Ammentorp The Generals of World War II [post=38274]Quoted post[/post] Hi Steen, What were the details of the crash?
Originally posted by spidge@Aug 29 2005, 03:06 AM What were the details of the crash? [post=38308]Quoted post[/post] Sadly I don't have the details about the crash. Kind Regards Steen Ammentorp The Generals of World War II