1st Battalion, South Lancashire Regiment Friendly Fire Incident

Discussion in '1940' started by Drew5233, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Sourced from 1st Bn South Lancs War Diary WO 167/784

    On the 16th May 1940 at Veldkant, North of Brussels, Belgium.

    At 2325hrs shots are heard at Battalion HQ coming from the direction of the canal.

    At 2350hrs A Company reported three casualties, owing to a misunderstanding between British and Belgian troops. Some Belgian soldiers opened fire after a British sentry failed to reply to their challenge. The head of a Belgian column, who were crossing a bridge, I believe it to be the bridge on Tommenmolenstratt, and challenged A Companies sentry who was posted near a large tree about five yards away. The sentry appears not to have understood what was being asked of him and failed to answer. The Belgian who challenged him thought he might be a German paratrooper and challenged him again. Again failing to get an answer from the sentry the Belgian soldier opened fire on him and shot him through the head. Seeing their sentry fall a section from 7 Platoon, A Company who were at their posts around 50 yards away thought he had been shot by enemy troops and opened fire on the Belgians with their Bren Gun. Around 30 rounds were exchanged with each other before they realised who they were firing at. During this incident A Company received a further two casualties. One was shot in the stomach and fell into the canal and was reported as missing. The other was wounded in his left hand. The two casualties were taken to the RAP by company transport.

    At 0010 hrs on the 17th May the Belgian soldier who had challenged A Companies sentry was taken to see the CO of the battalion. He told the CO that he had challenged the sentry in French, Flemish and English and receiving no reply assumed he wasn't French or English.

    I suspect the dates are slightly wrong as the battalion didn't suffer any casualties until the 20th May according to CWGC which are listed below. So either CWGC or the units war diary has got the dates completely or partially wrong. They could fit as one has no known grave (Pte Coulburn being the soldier shot in the stomach that dropped into the canal) and is remembered on the Dunkirk Memorial.

    My train of thought regarding the other two casualties is as follows:

    One is in Belgium (Pte Connor who was shot in the head) was buried in a local cemetery and taken to his final resting place after the war, which fits with CWGC's cemetery description where he is buried now. The casualty buried in France (Pte Walsh) was evacuated and died of his wounds on the 20th May in France.

    I think the confusion regarding the dates of death lies with Walsh dying a few days later on the 20th May and with them being involved in the same incident they were all later recorded with the same date of death as Walsh.

    001 CONNOR J 3766984 1ST BN 20/05/1940 SOUTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT :poppy:
    002 COULBURN HH 3651826 1ST BN 20/05/1940 SOUTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT :poppy:
    003 WALSH C 3650251 1ST BN 20/05/1940 SOUTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT :poppy:



    I must stress that this is just my interpretation of the facts I have to hand and my theory regarding the casualties has not been proven as fact.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
     
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  2. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Hi Drew

    The other consideration has to be when the diary was written - certainly after D-day the 1st Bn were criticized for tardiness in respect of records and letting n-o-k know of deaths - although as the CO pointed out, they were in constant contact with the enemy and Bn HQ was detroyed twice (he also suggests that whoever is investigating may wish to come out to the front line, Chateau de la Rondel, and check for themselves!).

    I recall that the 1st Bn were one of the last to leave, I will see what the Regt history makes of the dates.

    Pete
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Pete,

    The diary entries for May are signed off by the CO and dated 1st June 1940. They left France on the same day at 1310hrs.
     
  4. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Ok, not a mistake when they were written retrospectively then !!

    Pete
     
  5. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    CONNOR, JAMES, 3766984.jpg
    In Memory of
    Private JAMES CONNOR
    3766984, 1st Bn., South Lancashire Regiment
    who died age 30, on 20 May 1940
    Son of Elizabeth Connor, of Kirkdale, Liverpool.
    Remembered with honour
    ADEGEM CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY

    COULBURN. HAROLD HENRY, 3651826.jpg
    In Memory of
    Private HAROLD HENRY COULBURN
    3651826, 1st Bn., South Lancashire Regiment
    who died age 26, on 20 May 1940
    Remembered with honour
    DUNKIRK MEMORIAL

    View attachment 46508 .jpg]
    In Memory of
    Private CORNELIUS WALSH
    3650251, 1st Bn., South Lancashire Regiment
    who died age 31, on 20 May 1940
    Remembered with honour
    OUTTERSTEENE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION, BAILLEUL
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks Phil
     
  7. susantydd

    susantydd Junior Member

    I am researching 3446840 Private Thomas Martin South Lancashire Regiment killed 21 May 1940, aged 21 and is the only CWGC in the church yard at Verbrande Brug (Grimbergen) Belgium. I have been told that it was likely Thomas was killed by friendly fire. I wondered if he was possibly one of the men involved in the incident discussed on this thread. Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

    Many thanks,
    Sue.
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Susan,

    Englandphil maybe able to answer your question-I've just had a look through the entries for May a few days eitherside of his death and nothing stands out to me. Infact according to the diary the battalion was nearly 100km away from Grimbergen the day before his death. Notably this was to the west so he may have been left behind after being wounded.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  9. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Not much I can add I am afraid. There were too casualties on the 21st Private Martin and WO Harry Goble. WO Goble is buried at OOSTDUINKERKE COMMUNAL CEMETERY so this does look like he may have died of wounds.

    One way of potentially finding out is apply for his death certificate, which may give a cause of death.

    MARTIN. THOMAS, 3446840.jpg

    Photo courtesy of Forum member Doc

    His Army Service Number indiates that he was a pe War Territorial Soldier.
     
  10. Rhythm Boy

    Rhythm Boy Junior Member

    Hi DREW........I read with much interest your article above. I have been asked by a gentlemen in Grimbergen to research Thomas MARTIN who is buried in the churchyard at Grimbergen. Thomas was a Salford lad who more than likely was killed as a result of this friendly fire incident. I am searching for more info, so if you come across any, would you be kind enough to share it. I am a friend of Sue Tydd, who has already mentioned this earlier, and is also kindly researching it as best possible. Many Thanks, Graham.
     
  11. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    Is there a way we can find out which Belgian regiment was involved in this friendly fire incident?
    Perhaps they also have a war diary that can be cross referenced?
     
  12. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    This friendly fire incident has intrigued me!
    So I have been trying to find any other memoirs that have mentioned it so far I have only found another two.

    Two separate personal accounts by Stan V Jones of A company of 1 South Lancashires. I found one account in the Lancashire Infantry Museum and one in the Imperial War Museum.

    Account by Alf Hewitt when he was interviewed by Ronald Atkin for his book "Pillar of Fire". (Page 66)


    The location of this incident I believe is a bridge over the Willebrouck Canal, on the Dyle. East of Veldkant and Grimbergen. The bridge being Verbrande bridge (translates as burnt bridge).

    upload_2023-10-15_17-28-23.png


    Stan V Jones. Account held in Lancashire Infantry Museum:
    upload_2023-10-15_17-30-1.png
    upload_2023-10-15_17-30-15.png

    Stan V Jones. Account held in Imperial War Museum:
    upload_2023-10-15_17-31-2.png


    According to the memoirs of Alf Hewitt also of A Company, taken from book “Pillar of Fire”:

    The combination of exhaustion and demoralization sometimes had tragic consequences. Alf Hewitt, whose company of the South Lancashires was guarding a canal bridge just behind the Dyle line on the outskirts of Brussels, was sent on a night patrol:

    "We crawled around the fields from 7pm until about midnight. When we got back to the canal there was about a quarter of an hour to go until we were due to come back through the lines. So the sergeant leading us said we could have a smoke. There was a small side road that led down to the canal, so we went down there towards a low wall at the edge of the water. One or two sat on the wall and we lit up.

    Then we heard troops approaching. This corporal of ours strolled to the road, looked and told us they were Belgians. We had seen them over the past few days. They used to go up ready for war and come staggering back afterwards absolutely defeated after taking a terrific hammering from the Germans.

    The Belgians went past the top of the road, about fifty yards away. It was bright moonlight. Suddenly they came to a ragged halt and before our eyes they threw themselves on the floor facing us and began firing at us, pouring fire into us. There was nothing we could do but retaliate. We weren’t a rabble like they were, we were well trained infantry. We had two Bren guns. The action went on for about a minute and then somebody among them blew a whistle and they stopped firing and we sorted ourselves out.

    With their first volley we had two killed, one sitting on the wall, name of Martin, fell over backwards into the canal and we never recovered his body.

    Then there was a fellow named Bill Smith, who had joined up with me. I was lying in the gutter and he was on the pavement just above me. The machine gun they had firing ploughed straight into us. I heard a clunk as they hit his helmet. My own helmet was jerked round a bit but five bullets went straight through Smiths head.”




    Based on these accounts it appears that the man who was shot in the stomach and fell into the canal was Pte Thomas Martin.

    I wrote to the Belgian authorities and managed to obtain the police report which was written when two police officers found Private Martins body at the same location as the friendly fire incident. This was on the 21st May 1940 and this would explain why this date was written on Private Thomas Martin's gravestone and why he was buried in the churchyard there (Grimbergen (Verbrande Brug) Churchyard).

    upload_2023-10-15_17-53-36.png

    7 June 1940, 11AM name louis Meingaerts, who is an employee of civilian affairs of the commune of Grimbergen, district Brussels, province Brabant.

    A statement was made by Frans Van Dam, 49 years old and police constable, no relationship with dead person. Also, Camiel Sabbe police constable, no relationship with dead man.

    Their statement is: on 21 May 1940 at six o’clock near the “verbrande brug” a dead man was found with name Thomas Martin, born in Pendleton, Salford, Lancashire on 2 August 1919, not married, son of James Martin and his wife Catherine Martin living in Pendleton, Salford, Penny street 37. His army number is 3446840. No further information.

    Signed Van Dam/Sabbe/ Meingaerts



    Based on the above this leaves me with a few questions:

    1. Who were the sentries?

    2. Who was the man who was shot in the hand?

    3. Other than Pte. Thomas Martin who was the other man who was killed? Both accounts mention that a man with the surname of Smith was shot in the head, (and presumably killed), but who was this man? I can find no record on CWGC website of either an Arthur or a Bill Smith. Are there any records of the boxing match mentioned between this man and Pte. Jones?


    If anyone has found this friendly fire incident mentioned in any other memoirs I would love to hear them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2023
  13. battleofassche

    battleofassche Well-Known Member

    Great work Adam... You probably have this but just in case.
    P1180890.JPG
    P1180891.JPG

    And the canal bridge...
    upload_2023-10-17_11-28-47.png
     
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  14. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    I already have the war diary but not the photo of the canal bridge. Its nice to see it, it gives a sense if scale and sets the scene properly. Thank you very much!
     
  15. battleofassche

    battleofassche Well-Known Member

    A few more details...

    The Belgians had defensive positions on May 16/17 in and around the town of Lint, whose church overlooks the Canal and bridge and most likely served as an OP.

    Capt. Commander F. Demal commander of the I Battalion/ 2CyF defended the bridge at Verbrande Brug and were positioned on the west bank of the Willebrocek Canal at the village of Lint. The Kerk van O.L. Vrouw Geboorte church in Lint overlooked the Verbrande Brug bridge and provided an ideal observation position to view the west bank German approach. The church also provided a superior defensive position for Belgian snipers firing across the canal.

    The 2 Cyclists Company (Lt. A. Bikkens) of I/2CyF and the 6 Cyclists Company (Lt. A. Parent) of III/2CyF defend the zone between Verbrande Brug and Borght.

    The 1RL, in its role as a reserve unit for the defence of the canal, was in position east of Grimberghen. In the early morning of May 17 the 5/II/1RL commanded by Capt. Pierrard was sent to cover the bridge at Verbrande Brug and assist 2CyF who were already in position.
    .
    upload_2023-10-17_12-37-31.jpeg

    Another of the bridge

    upload_2023-10-17_12-54-21.png
    Kerk van O.L. Vrouw Geboorte church in Lint adjacent to the Verbrande Brug.
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    Great stuff! Thanks.
    Do you know if those Belgian units have war diaries that describe the friendly fire incident?
     
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  17. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    I ran the images through a colourising app. First pic
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    Second pic
     

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  19. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    Third
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Well-Known Member

    If anyone has access to newspaper archives would they be kind enough to check if there is any mention of any boxing match between the above Stan Jones and either an Arthur or Bill Smith of 1 South Lancashire battalion?

    Thank you
     

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