Woman Hanged WWII"

Discussion in 'The Holocaust' started by scotisle, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. ZeeWolf

    ZeeWolf Discharged

    I have to agree with the previous comments. War crimes such as these were indefenceable.

    The problem was that there was an order from high absolving soldiers from any prosecution, by the German authorities, for such acts.

    This is one of the reasons why the soldiers can smile at the camera when such despicable acts were carried out.

    Those soldiers who had moral standards and openly protested were severely dealt with. Sometimes shot, imprisoned in a concentration camp or labour camp or placed in a Penal battalion.

    Regards
    Tom

    Are you sure that executing criminals is a war crime? I see nothing in this photo that would be out of line if let's say she was a Partisan (terrorist). If that was the case would you change your opinion?

    Regards
    ZeeWolf
     
  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    I see this thread has taken on new life.

    One of the banes of my life are un-captioned photos and I have pontificated on this subject before:

    On the 6th March 2007 I posted an article on this forum about un-captioned images:
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/barracks/10308-does-drive-anyone-else-nuts.html

    On the 13th February 2009 the same topic arose again

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/barracks/16648-gallery.html#post176621

    In my posting I said “I still live in hopes that someone, one day, will give me the background to this greatly emotive picture that I once spotted in the Gallery that Lee W was unable to identify for me”.

    I decided to try one more time and GOOGLED using the following text “Group of young Jewish girls with Jude badge”

    To my delight I spotted the link to the USHMM (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum) and the mystery was now solved.

    The picture is titled:
    Group portrait of young women wearing Jewish badges, who worked in a sewing workshop in Bedzin.
    The donor, Ruzia Grinbaum is pictured in the front row, third from the right. The little boy, standing in the middle row at the far right, was hidden in the workshop by his mother, who is seated directly in front of him. Of the entire group, only the donor survived the war.
    Date: 1942
    Locale: Bedzin, [Zaglebie; Katowice] Poland; Bendin
    Credit: USHMM, courtesy of Rose Grinbaum Futter
    Copyright: USHMM
     
  3. Heimbrent

    Heimbrent Well-Known Member

    Are you sure that executing criminals is a war crime? I see nothing in this photo that would be out of line if let's say she was a Partisan (terrorist). If that was the case would you change your opinion?

    Regards
    ZeeWolf

    ZeeWolf, you are rather wildly mixing several aspects in your statement:
    - execution of criminals
    - war crimes
    - partisan warfare
    - equaling partisan and terrorist

    Had you read the caption of the photograph ("Three German soldiers stand beneath a woman hanging from the gallows at an unidentified German concentration camp during World War II.") you probably wouldn't have raised that what-if question, I hope.
    If you have read it, you implicitely state that people in concentration camps were, supposedly, criminals (or partisans, which in your diction would be a criminal, too). In that case I suggest you inform yourself better about concentration camps.

    As to your question: Executing criminals (in the true sense of the word) is no crime according to law. War crimes have nothing to do with that (I suggest you do some reading about what is considered a war crime as well). Partisan warfare is a very complex subject - it wasn't per se a (war) crime executing partisans, but it is unreasonable to equal partisan with criminal or terrorists when the context is lacking.

    I must admit I'm somewhat annoyed at how you interpret what you see in the picture. Why do you bring up an assumption the woman was criminal in such a - sorry - foolish manner when the context suggests something completely different? Just as an example: A photograph of a mass grave of two or three hundred people (in connection with WW2), grinning German soldiers standing about. You could of course assume that these people all died of an epidemic plague and the Germans had nothing to do with it at all.

    In case you were just asking an innocent question just not knowing enough about the subject, forgive my harsh words. Either way I would advice you to find out more about German warfare (and "warfare") before asking questions in such a manner again (this forum is a good way to start).
     
  4. ZeeWolf

    ZeeWolf Discharged

    I see this thread has taken on new life.

    One of the banes of my life are un-captioned photos and I have pontificated on this subject before:

    On the 6th March 2007 I posted an article on this forum about un-captioned images:
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/barracks/10308-does-drive-anyone-else-nuts.html

    On the 13th February 2009 the same topic arose again

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/barracks/16648-gallery.html#post176621

    In my posting I said “I still live in hopes that someone, one day, will give me the background to this greatly emotive picture that I once spotted in the Gallery that Lee W was unable to identify for me”.

    I decided to try one more time and GOOGLED using the following text “Group of young Jewish girls with Jude badge”

    To my delight I spotted the link to the USHMM (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum) and the mystery was now solved.

    The picture is titled:
    Group portrait of young women wearing Jewish badges, who worked in a sewing workshop in Bedzin.
    The donor, Ruzia Grinbaum is pictured in the front row, third from the right. The little boy, standing in the middle row at the far right, was hidden in the workshop by his mother, who is seated directly in front of him. Of the entire group, only the donor survived the war.
    Date: 1942
    Locale: Bedzin, [Zaglebie; Katowice] Poland; Bendin
    Credit: USHMM, courtesy of Rose Grinbaum Futter
    Copyright: USHMM





    Hello Ron Goldstein and thanks for your response,
    That's interesting Ron but your data in your post undermines the speculation that she was hanged for just being a Jewish. So one might conclude anything from their preconceived notions and be satisfied and that is precisely the reason the kinds of photos are used. And used effectively I might add.

    Still with ???????
    ZeeWolf
     
  5. Heimbrent

    Heimbrent Well-Known Member

    The picture is titled:
    Group portrait of young women wearing Jewish badges, who worked in a sewing workshop in Bedzin.
    your data in your post undermines the speculation that she was hanged for just being a Jewish. So one might conclude anything from their preconceived notions and be satisfied and that is precisely the reason the kinds of photos are used. And used effectively I might add.


    Well spotted, ZeeWolf :) That indeed sounds like the picture in question, my apologies for being so biased.
     
  6. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Hello Ron Goldstein and thanks for your response,
    That's interesting Ron but your data in your post undermines the speculation that she was hanged for just being a Jewish. So one might conclude anything from their preconceived notions and be satisfied and that is precisely the reason the kinds of photos are used. And used effectively I might add.

    Still with ???????
    ZeeWolf


    With reference to:
    "your data in your post undermines the speculation that she was hanged for just being a Jewish."

    I'm afraid the logic for your remark completely baffles me.

    My article about the tragic picture taken at Bedzin was confined to describing how much I hated un-captioned photos. It was was entirely un-connected, in every sense, to what could be assumed from the terrible image of the "hung woman".

    I would be very obliged if assumptions that I never made were not attributed to me.
     
  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    There were many instances where photographs of obscenities were found on German forces.These were usually taken by those involved in the deed as individuals or units.As such, the background information was usually known only to those people and as such were uncaptioned.It was left to later investigators to arrive at the truth as far as it could be ascertained.For some, the photographs would bring them to book for their deeds, but for many it was a case of disappearing into the Nacht und Niebel to save their own skins.

    However one aspect is clear, these people as human beings were proud of their achievements and were more than satisfied to carry the photographs on their person.It reflected the indoctrination of their regime from the top to the bottom.

    I find it hard to understand that the circumstances could be thought as legal.It is a fact that the Germans passified large areas of the Eastern front by wholesale murder of Soviet citizens,the excuse given for their slaughter that they were "terrorists or partisans".

    It was not only the SS involved,the Wehrmacht were no better,indoctrination was not confined to the SS.One might say,a reflection on how the Wehrmacht leadership behaved on the Russian front.They had sold themselves to the devil and few in 1945 could say than they did not have blood on their hands.
     
  8. Danila

    Danila Member

    Hi,
    the picture reminds me of an episode that happened in Frosinone not very far from where I live: a 55 years old woman was hanged by Gerrman Soldiers on a pole of the railway station just because they felt sik after having drunk wine, milk and cherries found in her house.
     
  9. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    Are you sure that executing criminals is a war crime? I see nothing in this photo that would be out of line if let's say she was a Partisan (terrorist). If that was the case would you change your opinion?

    I assume that you are serious in what you say and that your words are not some macabre joke from a sick mind. If you are serious, let us assume that the hanged woman is a terrorist (I shall give you the benefit of the doubt and not use the word 'partisan'). Let us also assume that the penalty in law for her crime is death by hanging.

    In these circumstances (speculative and entirely unfounded, by the way) she would be entitled, at a minimum, to:

    1. Due process before a court or military tribunal.

    2. A chance to appeal the sentence.

    3. The sentence to be carried out efficiently and with dignity with a military chaplain in attendance.

    4. Respect for the dead

    Even assuming that 1 and 2 were properly carried out, it is abundantly clear that the photograph of three grinning men under her corpse that there was utter disregard for points 3 and 4, both by these inhumane gapers and the photographer. It is abundantly clear, even without knowing anything further, that this is a criminal act photographed as a 'souvenir' at a time when the German army thought it was invincible. Whether she was a partisan, a terrorist, a murderer, or Russian, Polish, Catholic, atheist, or Jewish is totally irrelevant.
     
  10. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Peter G,
    Just in case you hadn't notice, the person whose comment you quoted and who I take you are addressing, was discharged from the site after their 3rd post.
     
  11. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Peter G,
    Just in case you hadn't notice, the person whose comment you quoted and who I take you are addressing, was discharged from the site after their 3rd post.

    Quite understandably so.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  12. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Quite understandably so.

    Regards
    Tom
    Yes his stay was fortunately, very brief.
     
  13. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Don't worry Diane, Peter's comments will be valid for the next ******* showing up on the forum.
     
  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Za I'm not in the slightest worried.
    Peter G addressed his comments directly to this person, not to the forum or to the general interweb. Had he phrased it differently, I wouldn't have felt the need to mention it. I merely thought it polite to point out that the person is no longer a member.

    But, the chances are that like the last few who have been turfed out, the next moron will be as equally stupid. They will not even bother to read the T&Cs or the forum beforehand and will try and impose their idiocy on us.

    Thanks again to VP for being vigilant - 3 posts is indicative of how impatient these sort of people are to start their nonsense.
    Regards
    D
     
  15. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    discharged from the site after their 3rd post.

    4th post... you should have seen the one that was removed ;).

    ~A
     
    dbf likes this.
  16. Stig O'Tracy

    Stig O'Tracy Senior Member

    The tag the guy chose was a bit of a hint as to how badly his mental state was warped.
     
  17. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    4th post... you should have seen the one that was removed ;).

    ~A

    Oooooohhhhh! Pleeeease!

    Make up a "Hall of Shame" or somesuch thread with these pearls! Make it read-only if you want, but don't keep that kind of comedy stuff for your Modselves (PBTN)!

    :lol:
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Oooooohhhhh! Pleeeease!

    Make up a "Hall of Shame" or somesuch thread with these pearls! Make it read-only if you want, but don't keep that kind of comedy stuff for your Modselves (PBTN)!

    :lol:

    Watch out Za, there could be some of yours in there :p
     
  19. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Ahhh, you wish :D
     
  20. 8002reverse

    8002reverse Junior Member

    "Three German soldiers stand beneath a woman hanging from the gallows at an unidentified German concentration camp during World War II."

    I took a screenshot of this 'photo and entered it into tineye.com without luck.

    The 'photo of Hitler standing in front of the Eiffel Tower found 96 sites also hosting the same 'photo. - See here:-
     

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