Has there ever been any question regarding Wingates untimely death and how it came about? I know the story that his plane went down but I am curious to know if there has ever been any question as to the nature of his death, specifically anything suspicious about it? The reason I ask this is because it always seemed out of place for me, am I the only person to think this? Reports seem to indicate that Wingate was a hothead, could be unstable and was pretty reckless. Was it not the case that Wingate attempted suicide before taking on the Chindits in India/Burma? I have to wonder if he was proving a bit of a liability at some level higher up the chain ( A'la Kurtz ) and they bumped him? This may be completely wrong but I have to admit the official story of his death never sat right for me - I can't say why. I welcome any further thoughts or speculation on this. Simon.
Hi Simon, From reading many books on the Chindits, and many different slants on his death in March 1944, I have never come across any hint eluding to him being removed so to speak! There were plenty who would have been very glad to see the back of him there is no doubt about that. I know that his pilot was unhappy with the amount of journey's he was asked to do in a very short space of time. Also, that the previous take off by the plane in question was a close run thing in terms of struggling to get off the ground. Wingate himself hated flying and I guess was a nervous passenger, but he realised his whole ethos of Air supply centred on flight and got on with it. He overuled the pilot and insisted on continuing his itinerary. There was an air accident investigation of sorts, in that a party were sent out to the scene, but hardly any remains were found, be that human or mechanical and no black box flight recorders existed back then either. Flying conditions in that region were always potentially hazardous, what with low level clouds and warm air updrafts. I guess we will never know one way or the other.
The Burma area was noted for hazardous flying conditions, add into that crew fatigue and you have an accident waiting to happen. The truth as stated may never be known but my opinion is that it was an accident with far reaching consequences for the Chindits. Steven
no suspicion, just a crash, quite large parts of B25 were left together with a crater, the natives buried large parts and almost complete bodies but post war only 3 lb of bone fragments were buried post war in Arlington Cem USA as a group burial for all on board, most remains are still buried near the crash site unmarked. The 75mm cannon and one engine have been recovered by the Indian Army and set up as a memorial in the village closest to the crash site
Didnt know that only a symbolic burial was made in Arlington - thought he was buried there with the American crew, normal American policy. Pete
no suspicion, just a crash, quite large parts of B25 were left together with a crater, the natives buried large parts and almost complete bodies but post war only 3 lb of bone fragments were buried post war in Arlington Cem USA as a group burial for all on board, most remains are still buried near the crash site unmarked. The 75mm cannon and one engine have been recovered by the Indian Army and set up as a memorial in the village closest to the crash site Great information there, I never knew of the location burial by the locals.
Had to let this reply hanging for a while because of a meeting, so it's very likely it'll be somewhat obsolete by now. However, I'll post it like it was, anyway :p: "Well, Wingate wasn't exactly welcome in high places, even though he had good communication with Mountbatten as CinC SEAC, so it's not such an off-your-rocker idea to think he was murdered. Happens regularly to visionaries, not considering the plus-for-assassination it is to have a really abnormal temper. Now, regarding the presumed cause of the accident, it was established as loss of control due to an electric shock to the pilot, through an antenna left in the open while flying in the middle of a storm. Crew couldn't recover control in time, due to over-crowding in the cockpit."
Had to let this reply hanging for a while because of a meeting, so it's very likely it'll be somewhat obsolete by now. However, I'll post it like it was, anyway :p: "Well, Wingate wasn't exactly welcome in high places, even though he had good communication with Mountbatten as CinC SEAC, so it's not such an off-your-rocker idea to think he was murdered. Happens regularly to visionaries, not considering the plus-for-assassination it is to have a really abnormal temper. Now, regarding the presumed cause of the accident, it was established as loss of control due to an electric shock to the pilot, through an antenna left in the open while flying in the middle of a storm. Crew couldn't recover control in time, due to over-crowding in the cockpit." Well done Warlord, another piece of the story falls into place.
Had to let this reply hanging for a while because of a meeting, so it's very likely it'll be somewhat obsolete by now. However, I'll post it like it was, anyway :p: "Well, Wingate wasn't exactly welcome in high places, even though he had good communication with Mountbatten as CinC SEAC, so it's not such an off-your-rocker idea to think he was murdered. Happens regularly to visionaries, not considering the plus-for-assassination it is to have a really abnormal temper. Now, regarding the presumed cause of the accident, it was established as loss of control due to an electric shock to the pilot, through an antenna left in the open while flying in the middle of a storm. Crew couldn't recover control in time, due to over-crowding in the cockpit." Well done Warlord, another piece of the story falls into place. It is always nice to read something new as I had not heard this piece of information before. The crash circumstances will always be subject to speculation as of many other WW2 incidents that still attract conspiracy theories. Regards Tom
It is always nice to read something new as I had not heard this piece of information before. The crash circumstances will always be subject to speculation as of many other WW2 incidents that still attract conspiracy theories. Regards Tom Plenty of grassy knolls available in the jungles of the Assam/Burmese borders Tom!!
Good to get new information - I had not heard those details either. Sir Trafford Leigh Mallory's loss on his way to take up his new position as Air C-in-C South East Asia Command has had its share of questions over the years. The greatest being why was the Avro York MW 126, which according to the flight plan, should have been at 17,000 feet, however it was flying low enough to hit the mountains killing all on board. Most of the answers for the loss were placed squarely on Mallory's own shoulders.
It's wonderful how a question such as Tickirocker's can bring together so much new info. I am still trying to find the quote by whoever it was that stated that the Mitchell bombers penultimate take off looked and sounded rough after a visit to one of the Chindit strongholds. It would have been Calvert or Fergusson at a guess. Basically too many books in the library to check through I'm afraid.
Was looking at my Calvert books and think it was him - Wingates successor was a real tragedy for the Chindit concept.
Was looking at my Calvert books and think it was him - Wingates successor was a real tragedy for the Chindit concept. "Mad Mike" has always been depicted as a tough, capable professional, so it makes you wonder about what really happened that made him place the Chindits at the feet of whomever was interested on their ultimate destruction, some say Stilwell, others the lot of politicians who really ran the show in SE Asia. Maybe it was the case of the front-line tactical hero that doesn't know how to handle the court intrigues of higher levels of command.
Not at all, the command of the Chindits was taken over by Lentaigne, who was due to be replaced prior to Wingate's death (recommended by Tulloch), Lentaigne made no bones about the fact that he disliked the Chindit concept of deep pentration and his nerve had gone after deployment his Brigade Major John Masters was trying to have him relieved on medical grounds when he got the message that he had been appointed to command the whole Chindit mission. The obvious choices would have been Symes - Wingate's deputy a seasoned officer - or the hard-charging Calvert who could be considered the most attuned to Wingate's thinking. Calvert was a very junior Brigadier and not attuned to the vagaries of High Command politicking.
Not at all, the command of the Chindits was taken over by Lentaigne, who was due to be replaced prior to Wingate's death (recommended by Tulloch), Lentaigne made no bones about the fact that he disliked the Chindit concept of deep pentration and his nerve had gone after deployment his Brigade Major John Masters was trying to have him relieved on medical grounds when he got the message that he had been appointed to command the whole Chindit mission. The obvious choices would have been Symes - Wingate's deputy a seasoned officer - or the hard-charging Calvert who could be considered the most attuned to Wingate's thinking. Calvert was a very junior Brigadier and not attuned to the vagaries of High Command politicking. Somehow I remembered Calvert as the one who took over... Sorry for the mixup, of the author of the book about the Chindits (from Ballantine) that I have been recollecting from, and the true new commander of the outfit. And yes, Lentaigne was opposed to the concept from day 1, a fact that surely caught my attention when I learned about it on "Guerrillas in Uniform", by Morris.
Interesting. My recollection is that the Lightning strike on the extended trailing antenna/aerial, resulting in Pilot loss of control in was presented was a possibility, rather than an established fact. The aircraft apparently impacted vertically and exploded, which would not have left much of the forward cockpit, or its occupants for examination. Loss of control, or fuselage damage due to turbulence in thunderheads was, unfortunately, only too common, in this area. Compression of crew members in the cockpit in such a crash is usual. Retraction of the trailing antenna, by the Radio Operator, in thunderstorms was usual practice. Wingate would have been further behind, and who knows where his topee was stowed.. Just curious. We will never know. Certainly there was much rejoicing in Delhi... Alex
