Where to find casualty reports NW-Europe?

Discussion in 'General' started by 8RB, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    I recently found this fragment of a casualty report and see these contain very valuable information.
    Does anyone on here know where I might find these? Specifically looking for 8th Rifle Brigade NW-Europe casualty reports.
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

  3. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, such is the want of these genealogy services, the data is not exposed in any meaningful way apart from singleton searches on individuals. You can't even search the casualty lists by unit or regiment alone.

    A simple "SELECT * FROM <table name> where unit = '8th Rifle Brigade'" would give you your results in an instant but you'll be forced reduced to trawling through thousands of pages and manually having to note them down.

    This is sadly what happens when you monetise information.
    papiermache and 8RB like this.
  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Of course it must not be forgotten that there is always the option of searching these records completely free of charge, just a trip to TNA; alternatively there are people that will copy them.

    By the way there the following entries are for the Rifle Brigade by year:
    1939 = 94
    1940 = 1,703
    1941 = 1,183
    1942 = 2,214
    1943 = 1,517
    1944 = 2,936
    1945 = 2,540
    1946 = 22
    1947 = 9
    8RB likes this.
  5. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    This isn't the case.

    If you try to request these files Discovery kindly informs you they have been digitized and are available at ...insert relevant URL. I know this because I have tried while at Kew.

    You have to have a very good reason to request access to files that have already been digitised i.e. they are illegible. I didn't test the "I don't want to pay FMP" as a valid reason.

    Personally, I joined FMP and then downloaded them all from September 1943 onwards. I have since been creating my own database for Italy casualties, allowing me to do my own specific searches.

    So for example, casualties for 6th Grenadier Guards on 10th September 1943:

  6. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I forgot to say that the work to do the above is obviously considerable - which makes the knowledge that this data is already sitting in a database, but inaccessible in any meaningful way for research, even more infuriating.
    8RB likes this.
  7. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    OK, sorry my mistake, I wrongly assumed that the original casualty lists, being held at TNA, were available to view there. Nevertheless I was demonstrating that the online service was searchable by regiment.
  8. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    It's getting a bit confusing. I am living in Holland, so, paying a visit to TNA is not really an option. Is there any other way of getting access to these lists, apart from becoming a member of Find My Past? And if that needs to be, can I then search however much I want to, or can I only search for a limited number of people or names? I do have all the names 8RB members (except part of HQ Coy). Thanks for all the input so far!
  9. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    There is no point going to the TNA - you can't view these files easily. They have been 'sold' to FMP.

    The files are not organised on a name basis. I think your best bet is to sign up for a three month period and you will also have the benefit of being able to search directly albeit one name at a time. There is no limit on searches but there is on how many files can be downloaded - it is about 500 files a day so shouldn't be an issue.
    8RB likes this.
  10. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Thanks, guess I will do that!
  11. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    The National Archives used to have a "User Forum": see minutes for August 2015 ( should still be available online ). This is a copy and paste from the minutes:

    " In regards to FMP, you cannot access TNA’s piece numbers so the records are impossible to find. LMO replied via email, that he acknowledges this is an issue. In future FMP will use TNA’s detailed catalogue information, where available. "

    LMO was the man in charge but he left shortly afterwards.
  12. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Have done so, thanks again! After going through 241 Casualty Lists, I believe I have now identified virtually all 8th Rifle Brigade's (511) wounded. Together with 163 killed (whose names I already knew from Taurus Pursuant and CWGC-data), it appears the Battalion had nearly 80%* casualties in their 11 months campaign. All will soon be added to the list of over 1500 wartime members of the battalion, in: Officers and men - 8th Rifle Brigade .

    *): percentage based on the Battalion's nominal strength, of 856 officers and men.

    O&M - 46j.jpg
    timuk and AB64 like this.

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