Veteran's Badge

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by militarycross, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. urqh

    urqh Senior Member

    I wont be sendng my vetrans badge back either...it gets me pint taken to me table on occasions...

    I understand the frustration of those who served at an intermediate time for some in British armed forces if there ever was such a time.

    If you joined up at a specific time in 70's you could find yourself surrounded by old sweats with ribbons and Gsm's to do with Aden, Borneo, Radafan and many more. I got my Irish version, but many didnt, and served their whole tour, thru Ireland, Falklands, and on to Gulf one with Bosnia and never visited them to get considered.

    Its unfortunate..but there you go. I remember the tale of an old salt in hospital with me in Falklands times, he had a bike accident, done 12 years in Navy, been around done it, seen it, and ate it...and was spitting and screaming, that the 3 lads he had just seen out of training recently...17 years old, were manning a bofors? and shooting down Argie planes in Falkland sound and he had done his time and nothing on his chest to show for it.

    It is unfortunate..but as Drew impies? You really have to spend the required time in theatre. Thems the rules...some go and dont do a thing in theatre and get the gong, but the time is spent...Its unfortunate but thems the rules we've lived by for ever.
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Sheila,

    I'm sorry I don't agree that doing four years in Germany as part of British Army on the Rhine or nine years posted in England (Home for the week ends) is worthy of a medal. In my opinion that would devalue the medals earned by members of the forces spent in rather unpleasant parts of the world who really earned them inc. the 18 months of my life.

    May I suggest that medal hunters should have joined combat units rather than rear ech units if medals were what they are after. Failing that they could have applied to a comabt unit once they realised they were so far to the rear they had to send their washing forward. (Squaddie joke)

    At the end of the day medals are awarded for recognition that usually entails some form of sacrifice in one way or another. I don't see how joining the forces in itself is a sacrifice worthy of a medal.

    Regards
    Andy
     
    Paul Reed likes this.
  3. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Must say I agree with Andy. Home service has meant no medals ever since campaign medals were introduced in the nineteenth century. To start giving medals out for turning up will devalue them all.
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  4. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    It recognises qualifying efficient service of current and former Australian Defence Force (ADF) Regular and Reserve personnel, including National Servicemen, who have served since the end of World War II.

    Is this devaluing the service of those who served in operational theatres?

    Or does it complement operational theatre medals and also recognise ALL those who served.

    Australia HAS recognised those who undertook National Service between 1951 and 1972 however the UK hasn't, why?

    UK national service personnel served in many operational areas e.g.. Korea and were casualties.

    Spider
     

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  5. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Spider -
    The British Government for many years now have only recognised service in an Operational area as being worthy of a medal - ergo - anyone who served in Korea were awarded the Korea medal and like wise anyone serving currently in Iraq - Afghaistan will be awarded those particular medals......it's just policy whereas the Australians - since the war - have been leaning towards the American system of a medal for lining up first at the PX ...hitting a bullseye etc...again that's their policy.....

    Cheers
     
  6. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    The Australian honours system is internationally renowned and respected with only 53 awards in the Australian system of awards.

    All awards are created through letter of patent, regulations, medal design and order of prescience approved by HM the Queen.

    Awards are then awarded on formal application.

    So you don't line up at the PX and receive them.

    I'm sure HM isn't at the PX giving them out.

    The Anniversary of Nation Service Medal 1951/1972 was established on the 10 October 2001 by Letter of Patent.

    300,000 served and 187 died on service and 1500 wounded.

    117456 Anniversary of Nation Service Medals 1951/1972 have been awarded.

    The Australian Defence Medal was established on the 20 March 2006 by Letter of Patent.

    207,962 Australian Defence Medals have been awarded....and growing.

    Australian died on service post 1945 are:

    Malayan Emergency
    39
    Korean War
    340
    Confrontation
    15
    Malay Peninsula
    2
    Vietnam War
    521
    Thailand
    2
    Somalia
    1
    East Timor
    2
    Afghanistan
    10
    Iraq
    2
    Solomon Islands 1

    This doesn't include those wounded.

    These medals were initiated through public opinion by the government and the through the emergence of "commemorative" medals.

    The Royal British Legion ( it has a royal patron) has initiated a 1939/1960 National Service "commemorative" Medal for the over 5 million people conscripted.

    If we both have the same Queen how come a recognised award hasn't been granted?

    The National Service Act was introduced by the Government, wasn't it?

    A suitable award would distinguish those who were conscripted and those who volunteered (perhaps an issue?)

    Lets no cheapen peoples service by saying they are issued at the PX, and no Australia isn't going in the US direction just fair and resonable recognition of service to the country.

    If someone has sacrificed their civilian career (during so-called peace time) to do national service the least they can receive is suitable recognition, not a hand shake (if lucky) and sent on your way.

    Sure some didn't serve overseas in a conflict area, however they did serve.

    That's my two-bobs worth.

    Spider
     
  7. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    Must say I agree with Andy. Home service has meant no medals ever since campaign medals were introduced in the nineteenth century. To start giving medals out for turning up will devalue them all.

    What about the Volunteer Reserves Service medal (and its Territorial predecessors) LSGC Medal etc.

    Spider
     
  8. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Spider - and a worthy two bob it is indeed -I did know that the reference to the PX would burn a hole somehwre - I can only put it down to the infamous British Humour - of which you appear to be unaware - it goes like this -

    two soldiers having a drink to-gether and one says to the other - " how come you got a Miltary Medal and I didn't as I was with you most of the time" ?

    The MM holder then says - "ah but you were not in the line up first for food three days running- THAT was an act of gallantry " !

    OR the other end of the scale - A soldier is screaming his head off in the Falklands
    so his pal looks over and asks - "what's all the row about' ? - the wounded one yells -" I've lost my leg " and his pals then says - NO you haven't - it's lying over here " !

    As I said - it's the British Humour - gets us into a lot of trouble at times...you have some great wine along the Murrey.....
    Cheers
     
  9. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    No offence taken, just clarifying some points.

    As I said - it's the British Humour - gets us into a lot of trouble at times...you have some great wine along the Murrey..... Murray!

    You have some great Whining there too........that's Aussie humour :)

    As before: "Sure some didn't serve overseas in a conflict area, however they did serve" and some didn't make it back.

    Having served in two so called peacekeeping missions I have dealt with the deaths of service members, one quite grisly one in East Timor perpetrated against a kiwi soldier.
     
  10. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    They do take this seriously over here.

    Spider
     

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  11. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Spider -
    I also dealt with a few grisly KIwi ones from 28th bde at a place called Montecassino...
    Cheers
     
  12. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Like (I'm pretty sure) most of my my fellow ex-servicemen, campaign medals on their own don't impress me overmuch.

    Show me, however, someone wearing an award for gallantry, the MM or the DFC for example, and my interest is immediately aroused and I am curious to learn how the medal was earned and to show my respect to the wearer of the award.

    Having said that, once a year in November I trot out my own particular basic set of medals and spruce myself up for the AJEX Parade where I meet up with about 2,000 fellow ex-servicemen and in particular my old friend Larry. We make a point of looking around for Africa & Italy Stars just to see how many of us are left to tell the tale.

    You might be able to spot in the pic below that I wear the Veteran's badge.

    I sport this all year round, but could possibly count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who even wanted to know what it stood for. I live in hopes that someone, someday, is going to say "allow me to buy you a pint for your service" but I am not going to hold my breath until that happens.

    I like the pic below which shows my old wireless truck mate Larry complete with brolly at "slope arms" :lol:
     

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  13. urqh

    urqh Senior Member

    I do understand the folk who have served their time and dont have any medals to show for it. But do we no longer do the old long service and good conduct thing we used to do.... If you served in a theatre for the required time, you get the gong, no matter what your role thats long been accepted.

    If you serve your career, supporting such forces but remain in a theatre that does not become operationally a hotspot, such as BAOR, Belize or whatever then you dont. Its long recognised, and my own view matches others...why should you? It was good fun or not, but no enemy appeared over the horizon to warrant the award of a medal.
    Although I suppose in Belize you could consider they may have been there somewhere.....just over there...maybe..

    That does not devalue the role and the need, and the service other folk put in for the defence of the country. They stood like everyone ready if needed....

    We then get into the realms of other dangers etc, the x factor if you like...In which case I want one for the 1979 fire strike, the Cannock chase fire in whch as a 17 year old I did some heroic things...well in my mind I did, I'm not sure others would think so, but I'll take a medal please.
    Riding with a pickaxe in a lorry during Tgwu threatened strikes...I got called a scab..me a good socialist...do I get some sort of award for taking this..

    But service life in the UK, is acknowledged....we get...the vetrans badge, all of us. Read the words that come with it...They do actually mean something.
     
  14. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    UK national service personnel served in many operational areas e.g.. Korea and were casualties.

    Spider

    And indeed were awarded campaign medals for those operational theatres. However, to award a medal to a man who came under fire in Korea, and to also give one to a man who was thousands of miles away unloading stores at the depot, never in any risk save dropping a box of berets on his foot, devalues both medals IMHO.
     
  15. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    And indeed were awarded campaign medals for those operational theatres. However, to award a medal to a man who came under fire in Korea, and to also give one to a man who was thousands of miles away unloading stores at the depot, never in any risk save dropping a box of berets on his foot, devalues both medals IMHO.

    Rather derogatory and demeaning comment. For every person in the field units there are at least 5 in the rear echelon and supporting units.
    My final two-bobs worth.
    Spider
     
  16. urqh

    urqh Senior Member

    Spider, I understand your comment, but the gist of what Paul says is true though.
    None of us join up for medals surely?

    Any support troops, storemen, RMP, RASC, REME, whatever who served in theatre along side or behind the lines in Korea or any theatre would have received the campaign medal? Even the stores guy dropping a box of berets, there can be no arguing with that. But the guy at Brize loading an aircraft with his fork lift, surely cannot expect the same medal for supporting that theatre from Oxfordshire surely?

    I'm not one for knocking the support forces....the front liners never jumped out of an airplane piloted by a para reg sgt...ok Glider pilots ww2, the exception before I get shot down, the front Glouscester or Ulster Rifleman never walked across the sea, no matter how much some think they walk on water, and they never treaded every mile from landing to glory by foot without an army driver at some stage of the route...they get the medal too. But the Driver in England taking them to the air head or port shouldnt.

    The vetrans badge surely covers the fact that those that served are remembered. Other countries may do things differently. But we dont want to get into the insulting comments of ww2 when Yanks arrived and Tommy Atkins asked many in a pub if they got the one on the left for crossing the pond.
     
  17. Donnie

    Donnie Remembering HHWH

    I think that if our medals scheme turned into the Americans with awards for shooting, good conduct etc it would destroy hundreds of years of our history. I am happy wearing my veterans badge as are many others though i dont really see myself as a veteran :D. I am re-enlising and will be in Afghanistan in the not to distant future so i can earn a medal and not have to bitch and moan that i dont have some sort of ridiculous peice of tin that is only there because they feel left out in the Legion......

    What is it with medals? compensating for something else?

    Donnie
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Lets not forget those back in the UK supporting those on operations get too:

    Go home at the end of the 6ish hours work.

    Have a sports day.

    Finish early on Friday.

    Make telephone calls to whoever, whenever for as long as they want.

    Get the w/end off.

    Have a bath if they want.

    Have a shower if they want.

    Put civvi clothes on.

    Kiss their partner and kids good night.

    The most dangerous activity they will perform will be travelling to work.

    Can go out for a meal and a pint any night of the week.

    Can go shopping.

    Have intimate relations.

    Get drunk.

    Drive their car.

    Go to the cinema.

    Eat fresh vegtables and meat.

    Eat fresh fruit thats not on the verge of rotting.

    Sunday dinners

    Fish and Chips

    Go to the gym.

    Drink cold water.

    Get away from the +30 degree nights

    Get away from the +55 degree days

    Sleep in a bed with clean linen.

    Where clean fresh clothes.

    Use a washing machine.

    Have a hair cut and not a shaved head

    Take their dog for a walk.

    Celebrate birthday with family.

    Celebrate Christmas with family.

    Go for a drive in their car or bike.

    Sleep

    Go to a NAAFI.

    Eat junk food.

    Watch TV.

    Know whats going on in the world.

    I'm sure there are shed loads more that you could add to the list of some of the things I went without whilst I was in Iraq in 2003 for 5 months.

    So what exactly would we be giving them a medal for?

    Personaly I would feel ashamed to wear a Op Telic Medal if I was only in Kuwait let alone back in blighty.

    Cheers
     
    dbf likes this.
  19. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    I wear my Vets Badge with pride - but my NI medal has pride of place because I really had to earn that - we were a forgotten army - no homecoming parades & no ramp ceremonies for our dead
     
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  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Amen to that brother !
     

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