I've just read an interesting article by Norman Davies in Sunday Times (01 May): "Russia, the missing link in Britain's VE Day mythology". You can find it in Timesonline http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1592247,00.html I'm very curious about your opinions.
Originally posted by Michal_Dembinski@May 12 2005, 12:49 AM A link would be handy... Michal [post=34382]Quoted post[/post] Sorry, My mistake. This should help: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1592247,00.html
laufer Some interesting details in the article, but I wouldn't have said there was anything new in it. Of course there has always been a populist view that the war was "England v Germany", as Davies says a precursor to the 1966 World Cup. But no reasonably well-informed person, either then or now, would have denied the more complex picture. The British Empire just about held its own until the USSR and USA entered the war, but it is virtually inconceivable that we could have won it on our own. If we had avoided being kicked out of France at Dunkirk we might have found it easier, but we wouldn't have been able to mount a seaborne invasion of Europe without US support and a massive commitment of German forces to the Eastern Front. We helped win the war militarily, but the effort bankrupted us (rationing got worse after the war) and we never recoverd economically. The huge Soviet casualties, many of them self-inflicted, are well known. But it doesn't surprise me that the EU refused to pay tribute to those murdered by the NKVD: the Western liberal establishment has always tended to demonise the Nazis but to think of the Bolsheviks as quite decent chaps. Adrian
Thanks for the reply Adrian. I quite agree. That sort of myths seems to be a much serious problem in case of Russia. As we know, for the real Russians the war began in 1941 and was rather a Great Patriotic one, than a World War II.
As Adrian said, nothing new in that article, but I do feel the article should've made the point that if it wasn't for Britain, the War would've more than likely been over by the end of 1940/early 1941. How close were the Germans to getting air superioty over England? Probably no one could've defeated the Germans and their allies on their own. Maybe the Soviets were best equipped to do it, but we'll never know. 20 years ago you could argue that the real victors of the war were the Soviets, they had stretched an Empire into Eastern Europe, and in a strange way it was probably easier to see how the hand of Stalin hand struck. Now it is different, people who are 20 can't remember the Eastern Bloc, or iron curtain, or the Cold War, or East and West Germany for that matter and it is easier to say today how good all the allies were in defeating the evil Nazis. Personally I think it is a very mistitled article
You may find this interesting. On VE day, I was being operated on by a genius. A Major John Charnley, A true medical genius. To save one of my legs from amputation they had tried a bone grafting operation on a "Goat" then when they found it worked, they did it on me on V E Day. To get enough bone, they took out the bits of hips I hang my trousers on. Now I have to wera old fashioned bracers. Or my pants fall down. They could not get enough bone to make the legs the same length so one is a bit shorter than the other. It seems funny now, but in those days adulthood was at the age of 21, so my parents had to give their permission just in case there had to be an amputation. It worked and I got to keep my leg...... So remember with pride Major, or Sir John Charnley, the surgeon that invented the hip joint operation that has given comfort to so many folk. In those far off days of 1945, I was able to help him make his own equipment. A true Genius, and one that brought succour and great care to many severely war disabled service men and women. The hip joint operation is still called "A Charnley" For eher was aman that cared for his patients and was perpared to go to long lengths to give the best medical treatment. And afetr care inthe best convalescent himes imaginable. So folks I give you Sir John Charnley ,a true Genius, and a man of great stature in the orthopeadic world. Sapper
You may find this interesting. On VE day, I was being operated on by a genius. A Major John Charnley, A true medical genius. To save one of my legs from amputation they had tried a bone grafting operation on a "Goat" then when they found it worked, they did it on me on V E Day. To get enough bone, they took out the bits of hips I hang my trousers on. Now I have to wera old fashioned bracers. Or my pants fall down. They could not get enough bone to make the legs the same length so one is a bit shorter than the other. It seems funny now, but in those days adulthood was at the age of 21, so my parents had to give their permission just in case there had to be an amputation. It worked and I got to keep my leg...... So remember with pride Major, or Sir John Charnley, the surgeon that invented the hip joint operation that has given comfort to so many folk. In those far off days of 1945, I was able to help him make his own equipment. A true Genius, and one that brought succour and great care to many severely war disabled service men and women. The hip joint operation is still called "A Charnley" For eher was aman that cared for his patients and was perpared to go to long lengths to give the best medical treatment. And afetr care inthe best convalescent himes imaginable. So folks I give you Sir John Charnley ,a true Genius, and a man of great stature in the orthopeadic world. Sapper Always find your posts interesting Sapper. I dont recal you saying how you got the wound. Its was on the island want it? Kev
HI Kev no mate, I had already picked up one wounding in Normandy. The second time it was while I was out at night, about one in the morning. being I was one of the original crew this 19 year old was a trusted Vet, and was trusted to go back from the front line to get the next days battle orders. That was on the Overloon Venraij road in Holland. On my way back with the orders big bang, big blast....Goodnight nurse. Fractured lower spine, lost top of my knee and one leg broken so badly that there was not enough bone left to heal together, Took me about two years to recover. More tea Vicar. Sapper
Sapper thats amazing. As Kfz said no account can possibly be as interesting or authentic as that of a veteran himself. Im sure you have been thanked before but I personally must thank you for making this forum as great as it is.
I'll second Hawyeye's sentiments, I've been here less than a week and have read Sappers post with amazement and enjoyment...........Thanks Sapper
Ward one, where this Genius practiced his little miracles, was a army hospital. This genius was also, like many of his kind...Eccentric....Ward one was also the ward for the very seriously war wounded men. And Major Charnley as he was then, looked after them very well indeed. There were some quite terrible cases there. The major gave all his lads there the very best he could manage, He insisted that the men had a pint of beer each day, light ale or brown ale. paid for by the army....What a man! He also gathered the prettiest girls i the area to visit and talk to the men. he managed to find chocolates that were unobtainable, somehow or other for the girls to give to the men when they visited. I was proud to be able to help the man that went on to even greater things make his equipment. But I have many tales about Sir John though I doubt that anyone is interested in things that old. Bt the way. he got the very best convalescent home, An Elizabethan Manor that belonged to the Cunard shipping family. Not only that, he also had the Dowager of the Cunard clan in charge, A women feared by her family. But cared for by the war wounded as a very nice person. Lady Janet Inchcape. A wonedrful lady. Its now "Stings" Manor House and I have been back quite a few times. For I love the old Manor House and it always makes me feel extra special welcome as soon as I enter her doors. Sapper
Sapper, You were operated on by Charnley? In my surgery nursing days, we used tools and implants that had lineage to his work. We knew the name well still used a tool we called a "Charnley", although we did not use the Charnley implants. Thanks for your service.
Sure was Jeff. Charnley was just as I described him.. A genius. I owe the years that I had since 1945 to him. His Wife, Lady Jill Charnley sent me a book on his life. It describes in detail his achievements. Quite wonderful really. As a tribute to a man that gave hope and healing to countless men and women savagely wounded in 1944, and to many hundreds that benefited from his knowledge. I have posted the following information rather long ..But make of it what you will. Search for a Genius. A Debt of Honour. Many of us have debts of Honour, debts that we shall never be able to fulfill, most of mine relate to the time that I spent in hospital and especially to those who looked after me and showed me such kindness and care. A need that I have never been able to satisfy. But above all, and for many years, I have wanted to say thank you to the man who got me back on my feet where all others had failed. Genius, he was just that, a Genius. Major Charnley. or Sir John Charnley. The man who brought comfort to thousands with his invention of the replaceable hip joint that is so common to day. It may have been because I helped him with his surgical contraptions, or perhaps, because of the wonderful bone grafting surgery that he performed on me and had given me such an improved life style, whatever, you may recall that he asked me to go back and see him and I described this earlier. With all of that in mind, and not having seen him since tea in his quarters back in 1945 I decided to try and find him. After leaving Hospital I found the going very hard and difficult, but at the back of my mind remained this need to say thanks, thanks for the years that you gave me, and for the quality of life that I would never have had without his help. Having embarked on this search and as time was racing, the need to find him became urgent. Where do we start? Well! I started by asking my Poole Hospital consultant Dr Lee-Potter he ought to know, he was Chairman of the BMA. No, he could not help, but he did point me in another directions, none of these were fruitful, eventually, I got in touch with Dorset County Library, the gentleman there listened to my story and said. "Leave it with me and I will search through all that we have, as and when we can" Some time went by then I received a telephone call. "We have found your man, but I am afraid it was found in an area known as (who was who) containing the obituaries of famous people who had died in recent years" " I will photo copy them and post them on to you" Reading his Honours it now became even clearer just how fortunate I had been to come under the care of Sir John Charnley back in the war time days. Inventor of the Charnley Prosthesis, his Honours became legendary. Honours 1970 Companion of the Order of the British Empire 1974 Freeman of the Borough of Bury. 1975 Fellow of the Royal Society 1977 Knight Batchelor 1977 Emeritus Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery Honorary Degrees and Fellowships 1972 Honorary Fellow of the American College of Surgeons 1976 Honorary MD university of Liverpool 1977 Honorary MD University of Upsalla, Sweden 1978 Honorary DSc University of Leeds 1978 Honorary MD Queens University Belfast 1978 Honorary Fellow, American Academy of Orthopeadic Surgeons 1980 Honorary DSc University of Hull 1981 Honorary Fellow, British Orthopeadic Association Medal, Prizes, and Special lectures. 1969 Olaf Af Acrel medal of the Swedish Surgical Society 1971 Prix Mondial Nessim habif of the University of Geneva 1971 Gold medal of the Society of Apothecaries of London 1971 Lawrence Poole Prize of the University of Edinburgh 1972 Cecil Joll Prize, Royal College of Surgeons of England 1973 Wade Professor, Royal College of Surgeons Edinburgh 1973 Gairdiner foundation Award Canada 1974 Albert Lasker Medical Research Award 1975 Cameron Prize University of Edinburgh 1975 Lister medal and Oration, Royal College of Surgeons of England 1975 John Scott Prize, City of Philadelphia 1976 Robert Jones lecturer British Orthopeadic Association 1976 Prince Philip Gold medal Award of the plastics and rubber Institute 1976 Prize Buccheri La Ferla 1978 Albert Medal, Royal Society of Arts 1981 Harding Award Action Research for the Crippled Child 1981 Faltin Lecture Helsinki 1981 Bruce lecture Toronto. Member of the American, Belgian, Brazilian, Canadian, Finnish, French, and Scandinavian Orthopeadic Associations. Coupled with several books and numerous reports on Orthopeadics. Unfortunately, he died on the 5th of August 1982. As you will have noticed by now, a true Genius. Armed with this knowledge, I now tried to trace his successors without any luck until I wrote to the Chief executive of Bury , who promptly sent the letter to Wrightington Hospital, eventually it was forwarded to Lady Charnley, his widow who sat down and wrote me the nicest letter a man could wish to receive. In her letter, she told me that she had many letters from former patients who had benefited from her late husbands genius, she also told me that she had instructed her publishers to send me an Autobiography of Sir Johns Life. This duly turned up and was signed with her best wishes. I remember Sir John as a man who always spoke his mind and did not stand fools gladly, he also looked incredibly young, at the age of 37 he was refused a drink in a public house because the barmaid thought him under age, and that was on his way home from giving a lecture to the worlds Surgeons. Something that left him boiling with rage. When I first met him he was 33 and was short in stature with fair hair and looked like a Junior medical orderly, helping out, apart from the Majors pips on his shoulders. When nobody was listening he used to swear quite a bit. But! in a well spoken and beautiful modulated voice. The staff at the Hospital idolized him, they recognized something special about this man and he could do no wrong. I am sure that had I found him earlier he would have remembered the young man who helped him with apparatus in those far off days. Later in 1946 he had another Surgeon operate on his perfectly healthy leg to remove a piece of bone and graft it back on again, just like the operation that he had performed on me, it turned septic and took a long time to heal. Sapper
It's a shame that often it takes a war to advance medical care. So much unnecessary suffering to benefit those later. When I started in nursing (1987) we were still sometimes using Schneider Nails to set mid-shaft femur fractures. They were developed by a German physician in the war named Schneider, who used them to treat Luftwaffe pilots who had been injured in crashes. Before this, that type of fracture meant about 6 weeks strung up in traction and all the debilliating effects of bed-bound inactivity. With the nail, the person was up and walking with crutches in a day or two, but not putting weight on the affected leg.
