Tracing the impossible?

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by daisy1942, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

  2. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Has anyone looked at this file held by the Irish National Archives?

    Trial in Rome of merchant seaman Dominick Michael Stringer Irish citizen
    Reference:
    DFA/5/306/14
    Date:
    1945
    Creator:
    Department of Foreign Affairs
    Scope and Content:
    Extent:
    1 file
    Language:
    English
    Level of Description:
    FILE
     
    timuk and CL1 like this.
  3. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

  4. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Hi High Wood,

    I have these papers and they do not show anything other than a merchant seaman called Dominick Michael Stringer applied to the Irish government for help when faced with a Naval Court in Rome. It does not give any details of the trial nor of Dominick Michael Stringer's birth and background.
     
  5. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Can you upload them? It would be interesting to know what he was on trial for. It should also give details about his service.
     
  6. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    I should need to retrieve them from the paper files, but from memory I do not believe they give any detailed information.
     
  7. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I should still like to see them. Sadly your memory has not proved to be entirely reliable as the only time that we make progress is when you produce documentary evidence.
     
    CL1 likes this.
  8. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    I shall upload them when I can. As to memory -it is unlikely that anyone would keep forty years of research in apple pie order in their head!
     
  9. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Going through my papers I realised I know far more than I thought about the Rome Naval court at least:
    From the log of the Empire Bairn

    12/3/45 Naval Court held at Naples to investigate complaint that Michael Stringer being a seaman lawfully engaged to serve on board British Ship Empire Bairn of Glasgow did at Maddelena, Sardinia on or about 24th February1945 assault ??? Lieut. L. A. Clegg DSC RNVR thereby occasioning him actual bodily harm, being an offence which when committed in England is punishable on summary conviction under Section 47 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861.This same being an offence against the person which may be enquired into by a Naval Court under Sect. 483 (1) (8) of Merchant Shipping Act 1894. Court considered case to be of insufficient gravity to merit sending the accused for trial under Sect. 6899 of the Merchant Shipping Act and adjudged him to be admonished and warned as to his future conduct
    Signed Jack Walters
    Commander Royal Navy
    President of Naval Court

    WW2 Naval Courts
     
    High Wood, timuk, ozzy16 and 3 others like this.
  10. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    I realised after I posted this that it relates to a Naval Court at Naples. Dad was involved in a Naval Court in Rome too. I believe the Irish papers refer to the court held in Rome.
     
  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    On the other forum you say

    Dominic Cunningham Casey was born in 14.4.1922 in Glasgow. He married Elizabeth Smith on 30.12.1940 in Glasgow. His wedding certificate states "gunner RA now on war service". I have tried but cannot find anyone of that name in the RA records


    Where have you tried for the RA records?
    As you have been advised ,apply for the service records.
    Quite why you have not applied is beyond me to help you rule him in or out.

    You are swamping the internet with the same old same old and in my opinion trying to get others to do your leg work.You ask the same question in a number of forums even though you have been advised here which way to go a few times.

    you must realise this forum is the best and members here don't mind leg work

    you must realise even my small brain is getting a tad spent by your lack of producing image evidence


    regards
    Clive
     
  12. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hazel, I had forgotten how many websites and how long I have been involved in little bits of your MN research. :)
    I have always encouraged you to keep going and I am sure you will. If some of our members ask you for documentary evidence I am sure you will understand that good researchers - and we have good ones here - will always start with the known facts and the primary records - family lore can and often does get in the way but good researchers while listening will concentrate on what is actually known. Also because your research has been undertaken over a long period of time it is natural for people to forget what happened at the beginning or are coming to it late and have to resort to looking at other websites for details of your posts so they can get up to speed. I have always suggested that with regard to his sea service you do need to obtain crew information with regard to WELLANDOC as that was the first MN ship that is detailed on his CRS10 that is a known fact - sorry I have lost the CRS10 in a previous computer crash. Don't be discouraged.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
    High Wood, timuk, Guy Hudson and 4 others like this.
  13. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Whilst truing yo answer questions here, I am also going through a stack of old, pre computer paperwork to make a coherent picture. That paperwork stack currently stands almost 2 foot high! As I go I am creating a word file that will have documentary evidence attached This will take time. Like you I have had a desktop and two laptop crashes. Some information held in electronic format has been lost and some corrupted beyond redemption. I am having to recreate the history. Hopefully in the New Year I shall be able to post a coherent and comprehensive history of my research,
     
    Hugh MacLean likes this.
  14. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    May I just add my own observation that family lore should be treated with respect but considerable caution? Some years ago I was tracing a relative who had died in WW1 - family lore said that he had died fighting the Turks being wounded and died on a hospital ship that was a converted cattle boat - he had been buried at sea. Most Service Records for WW1 were destroyed in the blitz but after some false starts I did manage to suss out what regiment he had been in and find his medal card. The battalion war diary gave me details of his death (he had been a very popular sergeant) and the CWGC gave me the rest. He had died of wounds fighting the Bulgarians in Salonika and I was able to locate his grave in Greece and visit it. The family lore proved not completely incorrect - his battalion had first travelled to France in !914 in a converted cattle boat. I use this as an example of how important is to build up a framework based on official records against which lore can be viewed.
     
  15. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Exactly Robert!

    We have "used" family lore as a starting point to try and prove/disprove stories. If we are correct that Dominic Cunningham Casey and Dominic Michael Stringer are one and the same man, stories that Dad told about his childhood are "corroborated" by proven records in Dominic Cuningham Casey's family tree. Equally, we were told that Dad had attended a very prestigious school in Glasgow. We have contacted the school and they have reviewed the records they hold for that time. They do not have any records under either of the names above nor under his cousin's name.
    We have never taken any story at face value, we have always tried to prove them true or false. Hence the continual enquiries on various aspects of their history.

    CL1
    Following on from my various requests for information on different chat forums etc, the wider the net thrown, the more likely you are to get[potentially good information. My bugbear is that being partially blind, a pensioner and having had two major back operations, personal research is very difficult for me. That is NOT an appeal for sympathy I would much rather be capable of doing the research by myself. That is why I have not mentioned this previously.
     
  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Hazel crack on here and Im sure you will have more success

    regards
    Clive
     
    timuk, daisy1942 and Hugh MacLean like this.
  17. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Sorry Daisy I get confused when you say `Dads father` what I was trying to say is I appreciate you are trying to narrow down his father in respect of other names which you have (No problem and I understand your frustration) but in respect of the passport application (leaving aside what names he used or even the place he was born) if you know for definate that `Dads father`s` Grandfather is John Patrick Casey then you have enough to satisfy the passport criteria?
    In a previous post you did state;-
    "Dominic Casey was born in Glasgow to John Patrick Casey and Martha Burt. I have a birth cert which gives 14.4.1922."

    If this is still correct then the story of `Dads father` is irrelevant in respect of the passport application for your husband? Isnt it ?

    Or do you need to prove that Dominic Casey is `Dads father`s` father before the whole `family tree` and `legends` become relevant to `Dads father` ?

    ( I`ll stop there I`m confusing myself now :) )

    In respect to the members comments regarding the multiple internet posts ,I think they are simply pointing out that `some` sites are willing to accept speculation as stark truth ,whilst here they rely on facts . The internet plays a big part in research today and searches will turn up previous results posted by `good meaning` folk who may not be as good or as thorough as the members on here hence the internet on this occasion has `muddied the waters` for you somewhat . What a shame you didnt discover WW2talk years ago. Good Luck and please bear with them .

    Kyle
     
    daisy1942 and CL1 like this.
  18. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Lol Kyle, I get confused too!
    Let me try again.
    Dominic Cunningham Casey was the son of John Patrick Casey (no problem there)
    My husband is the son of the man we knew as Dominic Michael Stringer (again no problem there)
    For my husband to gain a passport under the requirement of his grandfather being British we would have to prove that John Patrick Casey is Dominic Michael Stringer's father. This we cannot yet prove!
    Did that make sense? the Casey family were in the habit of using the same/similar names through the generations. When you go into their wider family it gets worse!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
    Mr Jinks likes this.
  19. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Well done Hazel its becoming clearer
     
  20. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Crystal clear now ! :)

    Your husbands father is (known as ) Dominic Michael Stringer (fact)

    but are Dominic Cunningham Casey and Dominic Michael Stringer the same person?

    You have the background details/research for Dominic Cunningham Casey but for you to proceed you need concrete proof that the two are indeed one . :)

    Why didnt you say that in the first place :) :) (only kidding I know you did . Good Luck)

    Kyle
     
    Hugh MacLean, daisy1942 and CL1 like this.

Share This Page