The Ark to be scrapped

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by Peter Clare, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Why are they scrapping the Ark when Illustrious is older?
    Has it been refitted with more modren kit?
    Good Q.

    Nope

    On 22 March 2007, HMS Ark Royal was returned to the Royal Navy Fleet after a two-year refit worth £18 million. As of May 2007, she once again became the Fleet Flagship, reclaiming the title from her sister ship, Illustrious, which had been Flagship since the end of her refit in 2005.
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    They could have saved a bit more money by disbanding the Parachute Reg.
    All that money on jump training over the years & for what?
    Last Bn sized para jump was Suez.
    See we don't need them, even during the Falklands they landed the same way the Bootnecks did, across a beach.

    while they at it, merge all 5 Guards regiments too.
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I'd disband the TA apart from essentials like the RAMC - The majority don't do anything other than get lashed at w/ends at the tax payers expense and are too fat to deploy overseas let alone pass a BPFA or a CFT.
     
  4. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    I wonder if there's a buyer in the pipline for Ark Royal ;) Weren't the Indians interested in one of the two new carriers? This way they get their hands on a modern carrier toot sweet...I think they'd have had a periodic go-round with Pakistan now over Kashmir if it wasn't for the Brits and the Yanks sitting half-inside Pakistan!

    Can't help thinking tho'....why not just PUT her somewhere???? The Americans did it in New York - why not bring her up the Thames, or somewhere in the Solent that's nice and shallow - open her stopcocks, bottom her and fill her with concrete....and use her as a heliport? It IS the ship that helped win us the Falklands War after all - more fitting to be preserved than some of the clutter on the Thames!

    Or even....do it in Port Stanley harbour??? There can't be many ocean-going liners or large cargo ships need access to Stanley nowadays. Make a hell of a prefabricated base for a rapid deployment to the Falklands! And it is somewhat traditional for the Navy to beach old hulks in the Falklands....if only to hold coal and assorted stores :)
     
  5. peterhastie

    peterhastie Senior Member

    Compared to 1939, what is the size of our current armed forces.
     
  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I don't know, but you have to bear in mind the Empire extension back then and the situation now.
     
  7. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    By all accounts we are stretched enough at the moment.
    What pisses me off is the blurb that governments have set out saying that all is well trust us - this impending implosion of the British and world economic systems just didn't happen overnight.
    Sad thing is we will be sending forces overseas poorly supported and poorly kitted out for what they have to do and men will be going back quicker than they ought to the man who will ultimately bear the brunt will be the man with the pack on his back.
     
  8. Gibbo

    Gibbo Senior Member

    The RN hasn't had proper air cover since the Sea Harriers were taken out of service in 2006. The carriers currently carry the Harrier GR7 and GR9, which are ground attack aircraft rather than fighters. They can carry Sidewinder AAMs but, according to the RN's own website:

    the aircraft are optimised for the close air support and strike roles and do not possess either a radar, or an integrated long-range air-to-air capability.


    Harrier GR7-9 : Fleet Air Arm : Operations and Support : Royal Navy

    One issue that's attracted less comment than the aircraft-less aircraft carriers is the failure to replace the Nimrod, which leaves us without an airborne naval surveillance capability. We appear to have scrapped both the fixed wing Fleet Air Arm and Coastal Command.

    I'd like to see a British aircraft carrier preserved as a memorial and museum. Invincible, which has been decommissioned but is still afloat, would seem to be the best candidate; she and Hermes fought in the Falklands, not Ark Royal.
     
  9. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Martin, quite correct on Incincible, ny bad.

    Mind you - I thought the Nimrod they were talking about scrapping was the new ELINT version they've been trying to get working for some time...?
     
  10. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    If it was not such a bloody awful state of affairs one would be tempted to put her on "eBay" , buyer collects , no paypal.
     
  11. Gibbo

    Gibbo Senior Member

    Martin, quite correct on Incincible, ny bad.

    Mind you - I thought the Nimrod they were talking about scrapping was the new ELINT version they've been trying to get working for some time...?

    The Nimrod being scrapped is the new ELINT version, but it also has anti-submarine, anti-surface and search and rescue capabilities. According to the RAF's website:

    The Nimrod MRA4 will have a multi-tasking role, whose primary tasks include ASW, AsuW and S&R together with an ISTAR capability. Further exploiting its integrated mission systems, it will be used, inter alia, in constabulary roles around the UK waters including counter drug operations in addition to contributing to the fight against terrorism.

    Link below is from the RAF's website so might disappear soon!

    RAF - Nimrod MRA4

    The Nimrod MR2 was taken out of service in March 2010.

    BBC News - Final air miles for 'spy in the sky' crews

    Apart from the defence implications of not having any such aircraft, what's going to happen the next time that a British trawler sinks and there's a need to search for survivors? Surely we have to have an aircraft of this type, either bringing back the MR2s or leasing Lockheed P3 Orions and buying the Boeing P8 Poseidon when it is ready?

    Lockheed P-3 Orion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Boeing P-8 Poseidon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    After today announcements, the MoD's budget is now the least of my worries.
     
  13. slaphead

    slaphead very occasional visitor

    After today announcements, the MoD's budget is now the least of my worries.

    Which anouncement was that Drew?

    On a (maybe) different note I came across this page that says the Coalition Government are going to cut the order for Chinooks from 30 to 12 but have billed it as if they are doing a good thing...

    The whole four page article is quite interesting. I dont agree with all of the guys points but most of them seem reasonable to me.

    This is page 4 about the helicopters, but the links at the end of the article get you to the other pages
    Cameron cocks up UK's defences - and betrays Afghan troops • The Register
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Which anouncement was that Drew?

    On a (maybe) different note I came across this page that says the Coalition Government are going to cut the order for Chinooks from 30 to 12 but have billed it as if they are doing a good thing...

    The whole four page article is quite interesting. I dont agree with all of the guys points but most of them seem reasonable to me.

    This is page 4 about the helicopters, but the links at the end of the article get you to the other pages
    Cameron cocks up UK's defences - and betrays Afghan troops • The Register

    Cut backs in the public sector with estimated job losses of 500,000 over four years.
     
  15. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    That is half a million people not paying taxes . At the moment across the board people who retire are not being replaced in any government paid jobs.
    Making things more efficient is fine but this only works up to a certain point.
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Why are they scrapping the Ark when Illustrious is older?
    Has it been refitted with more modren kit?

    I am still intrigued why they chose Ark Royal and not Illustrious though.
     
  17. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    BBC News - Tears as last Harrier jets leave Ark Royal

    A formation of Harrier jump jets have made their final journey from HMS Ark Royal - the last such flight from a UK aircraft carrier for about 10 years.

    The four GR9 jets marked the end of an era when they roared off the deck near North Shields, North Tyneside.
    Both the Ark Royal and the Harriers are being scrapped under cost-saving plans.
    The Harriers, heading to RAF Cottesmore in Rutland, will be decommissioned in 2011 and replaced by the F35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft.
    The Ark Royal was sailing across the North Sea to Hamburg in Germany.
    Flt Cdr James Blackmore, who was the last Harrier pilot to leave, said he was immensely proud.

    'Emotional moment'
    "It is amazing. I watched a Harrier hovering over Chatham dockyard when I was eight years old and I am now fortunate enough to be flying the Harrier today," he said.
    "It's an amazing aircraft, superb to fly and just very enjoyable."
    Quote PO Andrew Collins
    The crew of the 22,000-tonne Ark Royal, which has seen active service in the Balkans and 2003 invasion of Iraq, lined the decks to watch the historic departure.
    Captain Jerry Kyd said there was a tear in his eye when the last Harrier left.
    "It was an emotional moment and also one of real pride as we look back over 25 years service to Queen and country," he said.
    "No naval officer wants to see any ship decommissioned early and she is a fine vessel and she has a fine history.
    "She is at the peak of her efficiency but one understands that very difficult decisions have to be made across government."
    One senior officer described the decision to scrap both the jets and carrier as "madness".
    Petty Officer Andrew Collins, 26, from Glasgow, said: "HMS Ark Royal is like the girlfriend you hate and you only realise you loved her when she has binned you."
    And Petty Officer David Terracciano, 31, from Portsmouth, added he was "gutted".
    The Ark Royal - the Royal Navy's flagship - will eventually head back to her Portsmouth base on 3 December.
    It will be replaced by the Queen Elizabeth class of aircraft carrier at the end of the decade, which will carry F35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft.
    A group of former Royal Navy admirals have suggested scrapping the Harrier force and HMS Ark Royal could leave the Falklands open to attack - a claim denied by ministers who insist the UK will still be able to defend the islands.
     
    James S likes this.
  18. Capt Bill

    Capt Bill wanderin off at a tangent

    Very surprised that they didnt have a certain BBC corrspondant from 1982

    saying that he'd counted them all out ...



    time to call the Womans Aux Balloon Corps

    :group2:
     
  19. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    Shades of Thatcher - I'd have though events in Korea would have given pause for thought
     
  20. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    A Sad day.

    I cannot say that I agree with the decisions made.

    Regards
    Tom
     
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