Searching for statics Italian Caampaign 1943-45

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Sandra Doran, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Hello everyone....
    Can anyone suggest where I might find the statics of German, Italian, British and Allied Forces for MIA, WIA, KIA and POWs for the duration of the Italian Campaign?
    I have tried various sites but nothing concrete has come back.
    Sandra
     
  2. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    John Ellis's The World War II Databook offers this, though it's not entirely helpful for British forces...

    The columns are Killed/Missing - Wounded - PoW:

    IMG_20190804_110950703.jpg
     
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  3. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Thank you.
     
  4. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Hi Sandra,

    here below is page 452: From Salerno to the Alps 1943-1945. A History of the Fifth Army by Lt. Col. Chester G. Starr. Infantry
    Journal Press. Thanks for starting this thread. I've got a funny feeling that it will carry on for a while.

    rsz_20190804_113539_2.jpg

    Stu.
     
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  5. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Have you checked the Commonwealth War Graves Commission for British and Commonwealth? cwgc.org

    Vitellino
     
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  6. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Yes i have, but as yet no absolute figures can be obtained as a lot of Italian data has been lost.
     
  7. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    You could be right on that one.
     
  8. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Tell me more about the lost Italian data please.

    Vitelliino

    Edited - just found this:

    Source: Army data (Ufficio Storico dello Stato Maggiore dell'Esercito. Commissariato generale C.G.V. . Ministero della Difesa - Edizioni 1986)

    Casualties

    Italian units fighting alongside the Allies (armistice onwards) 5,927

    I have also found a figure for Sicily but don't think the source is reliable so won't quote it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  9. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Thank you.
     
  10. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    From CWGC Burials /remembrance in Italy:

    Results

    These servicemen served with the following forces and are buried or remembered on memorials on Italian soil. The cemeteries and memorials are given on the CWGC website. There are some women among them - nurses etc.
    It should however be remembered that over 1000 of these deaths were prisoners of war, many taken in North Africa- my research.
    It should also be remembered that other POWs who died in Italy are remembered on the Alamein Memorial and other memorials in North Africa. - I have no figures for these to date.

    Lastly, I am curious, Sandra, as to why you are looking for these figures,

    Vitellino
     
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  11. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Good morning, curiosity is one. Second, wanted to acknowledge them in my book.
     
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  12. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Thanks for anwering my question and good luck with your publication,

    Vitellino
     
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  13. GeoffMNZ

    GeoffMNZ Well-Known Member

    Sandra,
    From the NZ Official History at:
    Appendix I — CASUALTIES IN 2 NEW ZEALAND DIVISION IN ITALY | NZETC
    (sorry formatting lost but it gives you an idea of the data.)
    Most of the volumes have casualty stats at the end or in the appendix
    Cheers
    Geoff

    ITALY VOLUME II : FROM CASSINO TO TRIESTE
    APPENDIX I — CASUALTIES IN 2 NEW ZEALAND DIVISION IN ITALY

    Previous Section | Table of Contents | Up | Next Section

    PAGE 587
    Appendix I
    CASUALTIES IN 2 NEW ZEALAND DIVISION IN ITALY

    The following table of casualties in 2 New Zealand Division has been compiled from 2 NZEF casualty lists, which are divided into seven parts:

    Italy I, 12 November 1943 – 31 January 1944 (the Sangro River and Orsogna).

    Italy II, 1 February – 10 April 1944 (Cassino).

    Italy III, 11 April – 16 June 1944 (occupation of the Apennine position near Cassino and advance to Sora and Avezzano).

    Italy IV, 17 June – 24 August 1944 (Monte Lignano, advance toFlorence, and the south bank of the River Arno).

    Italy V, 25 August – 26 October 1944 (return to the Adriatic coast near Rimini and advance to the Savio River).

    Italy VI, 27 October 1944 – 31 March 1945 (Faenza area and the Senio River).

    Italy VII, 1 April–2 May 1945 (advance from the Senio River to Trieste).

    Killed and Died of Wounds Wounded Prisoners of War Total TOTALS
    Offrs ORs Offrs ORs Offrs ORs Offrs ORs
    Italy I 38 375 87 1,045 2 87 (a) 127 1,507 1634
    Italy II 25 318 87 1,117 3 46 (b) 115 1,481 1596
    Italy III 16 105 45 555 2 61 662 723
    Italy IV 26 259 71 824 1 29 (c) 98 1,112 1210
    Italy V 17 211 53 804 23 (d) 70 1,038 1108
    Italy VI 12 182 46 758 1 17 59 957 1016
    Italy VII 17 224 73 1,067 90 1,291 1381
    —— —— —— —— — —— —— ——
    Totals 151 1,674 462 6,170 7 204 620 8,048 8668
    (a)Includes 18 wounded. (b) Includes 7 wounded. (c) Includes 4 wounded. (d) Includes 6 wounded.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  14. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Good morning Geoff,
    Thank you so much for the info, helps a lot.
    Don't suppose you would know how to contact any surviving veterans from the campaign? All my leads are not coming to much.

    Sandra
     
  15. GeoffMNZ

    GeoffMNZ Well-Known Member

    Sandra,
    Sadly no, I do not. Any that are still alive would be in their mid 90's at the least. It is estimated there were about 1100 surviving in NZ in April this year. My fathers 24 Battalion Association wound itself up in 2012 as their numbers had reduced to a point to make it no longer viable.
    I will make some inquires.

    Regards
    Geoff
     
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  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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  17. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Try Ron Goldstein on this forum.


    Vitellino
     
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  18. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Thank you, any contacts would be welcome. Sad about your father's Battalion.
     
  19. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

  20. Sandra Doran

    Sandra Doran Active Member

    Already in touch, thank you
     

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