Remembering Today 17/5/43 Sailor:Richard William Elsworthy,Merchant Navy S.S. Northmoor (London)

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by CL1, May 17, 2017.

  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Merchant Seamen Deaths, 1939 -1953
    Name: Richard William Elsworth (card attached has had the 'Y' added to his name)
    Age: 28
    Birth Date: abt 1915
    Birth Place: Hull, England
    Death Date: 17 May 1943
    Death Place: At Sea
    Mother: Lilian

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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Noticed that several were killed on the same date so I searched a little further

    Northmoor (British Steam merchant) - Ships hit by German U-boats during WWII -

    All those killed in the incident - Crewlist from Northmoor (British steam merchant) - Ships hit by German U-boats during WWII -


    edited to add:

    Can someone explain why there are not the same number of MN names on the memorial as there are on the crewlist (yes I know and have not included the RN DEMS gunner)

    Arthur Peters the Master is not included on the memorial - why would that be?
  4. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    North of Durban, the cargo ship Northmore 4,392 tons (Runciman Shipping Co) East Africa to the River Plate was sunk by U 198
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  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

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  6. Nick Cooper

    Nick Cooper Junior Member

    A bit late, but this is the full crew list for the MV Northmoor (Stanley Rothwell was my grandfather):

    Peters, Arthur - Master
    Ablett, T J - Messroom Steward
    Anderson, Thomas W - Junior Engineer [Asst Engr]
    Arthur, John - AB
    Bark, George Hunter [?] - Deck Hand
    Bell, Arthur Douglas - Third Radio Officer
    Bettison, D H - Third Officer [3rd Mate]
    Burrell, Albert - Chief Engineer Officer †
    Chamberlain, E C - Fourth Engineer [8-4 watch]
    Christie, L - Bosun
    Cook, Joseph Douglas - Deck Hand
    Cooper, Charles - Junior Engineer [Asst Engr]
    Cowley, Joseph Greig - Apprentice †
    Elsom, O F - Apprentice
    Elsworthy, Richard William - Sailor [AB] †
    Gant, F W - Apprentice
    Garner, Walter - Deck Hand [Leading Seaman (DEMS gunner)] †
    Goodwin, J R - Second Radio Officer
    Grady, William V - OS
    Hines, J - Cook
    Johnson, Dennis - Junior Engineer [Asst Engr] †
    Johnston, Derrick G - Apprentice
    Jordan, R - Assistant Steward
    Jordan, Thomas D - Deck Hand
    Kehoe, James Francis - First Radio Officer †
    Lamb, William David - Second Officer [2nd Mate] †
    Lindberg, A - Carpenter
    Mangan, Bernard - Assistant Cook †
    Manley, Jospeh - Greaser [DBS Ex-British Resolution]
    McCaffrey, John Thomas - Bosun [DBS Ex-Holmpark]
    Owen, Francis James - Deck Hand
    Roch, Norman - Chief Officer [1st Mate] †
    Rothwell, Stanley - Second Engineer [4-8 watch]
    Seagren, Isaac - Able Seaman †
    Shaw, Charles - Greaser †
    Smith, Charles G - OS
    Venus, W - AB
    Whiteley, Samuel - Third Engineer Officer [12-4 watch] †
    Wright, R - Chief Steward
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  7. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    The Master, Arthur Peters was not lost in the attack. The crew lists on are really a work in progress and they are not accurate - only use it as a guide. Arthur Peters is shown on as a survivor. To answer your question more fully though, some names are recorded against other ships, for example, if a seaman was torpedoed and then rescued by another ship which itself was lost then the name would go against the ship that was lost. There are also other reasons why memorials are not up to date.

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  8. Nick Cooper

    Nick Cooper Junior Member

    It's also worth noting that in some cases is "wrong" because the standard reference works are, but now we have access to previously unavailable documentation that shows otherwise.

    I've also just realised that I forgot to indicate that the other DEMS gunners were Bark, Cook, Jordan, and Owen. Most of the crew joined at Hull, but Peters replaced original master F G Nesbit there, and Alfred Greening (greaser) was discharged before sailing. F G Poole (AB) was discharged at Alexandria, where they dropped off the initial cargo of military supplies. John Arthur joined there a couple of days later, presumably as a direct replacement for Poole. Manley & McCaffrey joined at Lorenco Marques, where the ship picked up the coal cargo, bound for Argentina.
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