Qualification for Burma Star

I hate to say this but there is an alternate answer to your problems... If everything you've researched points to the obvious (Occam's Razor) then just source one for his gt-grandson on greedbay... it will be "time-worn", and as they are usually un-named can be added to his other medals... job done... and sod the MoD...

 

It is beyond belief that someone with all the luxury of modern life, can sit at a desk and deny a medal to a man who went through the hardship of WW2.
On the grounds that he may or may not have been afloat.

I'm thinking that this case should be viewed by a wider audience.
Try your local paper to see if they will take up the story.
Social media etc.
Is there a Royal Navy veterans association that can help you?

 

It is all too easy for the MOD to deny medals and in the case of the RN it is difficult to provide evidence of specific medal entitlement when records only record basic information such as the admin/base ship.
It was the case that they could have sailed in other ships while associated with their pay and accounting base. Sometimes these seagoing ships are shown in the service records in brackets sometimes not.

I think RCG has a good point. I would suggest you contact your local MP see if they can earn your vote by working for you for a change.
Personally if the country that he served does not think he was entitled to a medal for that service I would not be tempted to obtain one on ebay or anywhere else as to my mind it would not carry the same meaning.However, I would continue to try and prove his entitlement if I could despite the officials in the MOD and once proven be very happy to add the medal to the rest of his awards. Having much experience wilth Merchant Navy medals all I can say is that it can be difficult to prove sometimes but keep at it.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thank you all for your advice. I will give MOD one last opportunity (if Navy Command don't know exactly where he was how can MOD deny his medal) before I contact the press.
My MP (Con N Cornwall) is presently "helping the police with their enquiries" in respect of election expenses so his mind may be on other things.
Thanks again for your support.
Christopher

 

Hi Christopher,

Good luck with your continued quest. I understand the frustration of bureaucracy, their intransigence and petty mindedness. My grandfather, who died as a POW in Rangoon in 1943, was awarded according to his records, the 1939-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal and War Medal. The entry for the Defence Medal was then crossed out in pen by the Army clerk, when he must of realised that Granddad had failed to qualify for the medal by just two days service, when he died on the 17th June 1943. However, this didn't stop the Army Pensions office declining to help my Nan for over two years, until Granddad's fate could be verified by the Chindit survivors liberated from Rangoon.

During my time researching the men of Chindit 1, I have collected several sets of medals including the Burma Star. I do possess a spare authentic Burma Star medal, although there is no way of knowing to whom it was originally awarded. Basically, this medal is yours if you want it. Just let me know.

Steve

 

Hi Steve
I'm overwhelmed by your kind offer. My grandson, 13 year old Jack Hays from Cincinatti USA, is fascinated by his great grand father. He's visiting us from July 1st and I would love to give him the Burma Star my Dad deserved. It may take years to wheedle one out of the MOD so I will accept your kind offer with many thanks.
My email is c.walton80@btinternet.com
If you contact me we can sort out the arrangements.
Kind regards
Christopher

 

WELL DONE. Steve

 

Email sent.

 

No offence is intended, but I do think that this thread needs a devil’s advocate. Everyone needs to take a step back before contacting their MP.

You father did not serve in Burma, nor in the qualifying parts of India adjoining it. It seems that he served in static units in India. Nothing wrong with that, millions did, but it doesn’t earn a Burma Star. The qualifying area for the that award was extended to the shores of the Bay of Bengal so that members of the Eastern/East Indies Fleet supporting the army in Burma, and battling the Japanese at sea, could qualify for the award. It clearly wasn’t intended for those service personnel who happened to be based on, or near, the coast of India, or indeed, Ceylon.
You may see this as an injustice, but I’m not sure why.
A soldier who had a hard war fighting the Japanese in Burma, with little reward except the Burma Star, might have considered its award to personnel based in Southern India, a thousand miles away, as another form of injustice.
If your father felt that he qualified for the award he should have applied for it. Since he obviously didn’t, perhaps it should be left like that.

 

Not wishing get involved in an argument but I think Charpoy has made a valid point.
I spoke with a Royal Navy veteran once at a reunion and he told me that he thought his Burma Star was issued just for turning up! I believe his brother was killed in Burma.
I think Christopher that you should just resolve yourself to the fact that your father did actually do valuable war service but was not eligible for the medal as laid down by the rules. It's a bit like someone who performed a brave act and not being recognised for their gallantry just because the "right person" was not there to verify it....and there were plenty of these cases.
Lionboxer

 

I think it's unfortunate that Charpoy Chindit and Lionboxer have commented without properly reading the thread and without a complete understanding of the facts.
My father served within the qualifying area and MOD Medals Office have agreed that is the case. Their case in denying the medal award is based on their claim that his service was not afloat.
However, in the autumn and winter of 1944 the flotillas and units of the Landing Craft Wing moved from bases in south east India to the Arakan, in the south of Burma, where they were employed in ferrying stores and working up with "Force 64" for the assault on Akyab. These vessels lacked sleeping quarters, galleys and heads so it is likely that their crews were not at sea for long periods of time. I think that the MOD are taking the view that if he wasn't at sea proper, as it were, he doesn't qualify.

Additionally, Navy Command have informed me that the records of men who served in Combined Operations (as did my father) only show from where they were administered (HMS COPRA) rather than where, or on what ship, they were serving. Therefore, it is clear that MOD Medals Office are unlikely to know where he was, or what he was doing there. I have sent MOD photos of my father, taken at this time, on a landing craft, in a jungle creek, accompanied by armed troops in the hope that they will recognise such as photographic evidence of his service.
Christopher

 

It's not me you need to convince but the Medal Office and without official documentary evidence to back up your fathers service in the Arakan (which you've just now explained above) then I fear you will have a tough job.
Have you tried looking for all relevant war diaries of units doing this work?
Lionboxer

 

No I haven't heard of public access to war diaries. Could you give me an idea how I can get this information?
Christopher

 

Well I'm no expert on naval issues but presumably there must unit records or log books written at the time. ( you just can't take a boat or landing craft and sail off to the Arakan or wherever without there being a record somewhere). Whether these are in the National Archives or the Admiralty I don't know. All army units were required to keep a daily war diary, some being more detailed than others.
I'm sure there are other members on here who are better placed to advise you than me. Good luck.
Lion boxer

 

Thank you. I think that the problem is that my father was in Combined Operations and, because most of their operations were secret, records of the type you described were either not kept at the time or, if records were kept, they were perhaps destroyed after the operation, or sent to some now forgotten location.
He disappears from the Navy Lists after August 1943 (when he joined Combined Ops). The information I have discovered comes from P&V records at Navy Command. I think I have exhausted all sources of information.

 

Have you tried checking out other sites ??

One for example that may be able to further your enquiries - http://www.combinedops.com/ or http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/WW2/ they may have information that you are specifically looking for.

Have you also thought to check out files at The National Archives - searching for Combined Operations Far East gives a possible 126 results, covering your time span - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=combined+operations+far+east&_p=1925&Refine+dates=Refine

This is where the fun of research starts

TD

 

Yes, I've researched the websites of Combined Operations and Commando Veterans but there's nothing there. I'll check out National Archives as you suggest. Thank you for your advice.
C

 

C

You say researched those sites, but have you contacted them and asked your questions?? - there is a subtle difference between researching a site and making contact with it - just making sure

TD

 

Christopher, did your father claim any campaign medals at the end of the war and do you have any evidence (photographic or otherwise) of him wearing ribbons on his uniform prior to demob in 1946 ?

It would have been normal for those eligible to receive authorisation to wear the ribbons fairly quickly and this was not linked to claiming the medals themselves.

I can understand the reluctance of MOD today to issue medals without evidence from official records to show eligibilty. I think that we can be thankful after all this time that there is still any possibility of issue but to expect them to counter the decisions made at the time seems a step too far.

There were inevitably odd and illogical criteria behind the issue of the campaign medals and many who deserved more received little and some well-travelled desk-wallahs received a full rack. The British Commonwealth didn't have any 'Close Combat Clasps' or decorations of that order so inevitably arbitrary geographical criteria come into play. As has been suggested earlier, the only person who could really have queried this effectively would have been your father at the time.

It may be of course that I haven' t read the thread properly or have an incomplete understanding of the facts...but this is an open forum and surely all reasonable views should be welcomed. We don't necessarily have to agree with them.

 

Hi Rich
I have a photo of him, taken at the end of the war, I think, wearing a medal ribbon but it's too small to distinguish what it is.
He was awarded the 1939-45 Star, Atlantic Star, Italy Star and Defence Medal. According to the MOD Medal Office he claimed these.
I think the thing is that, because of the Combined Ops connection, MOD don't know whether he spent 1945 sitting in the mess, nice and safe in India, drinking pink gin or navigating a landing craft full of nervy soldiers up a jungle creek in Jap occupied darkest Burma.
Thank you for your comments.
Christopher

And for TD yes, I've contacted Commando Veterans and Combined Ops but neither can help with my research.