No.3 (Jewish) Troop No.10 Commando.

Discussion in 'Commandos & Royal Marines' started by Peter Clare, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Peter

    While the BBC WW2 People's War was still open for postings, I was priviliged to be able to make various postings for Martin Sugarman (the AJEX Archivist) including this one: BBC - WW2 People's War - No.3 (Jewish) Troop, No.10 Commando

    The Jewish Commandos were all too aware of the risks they faced if captured but nevertheless volunteered for their hazardous missions.

    Ron
     
  3. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Thanks Ron

    I became interested in this troop a few years ago when on one of my many visits to Aberdovey where they trained I noticed a memorial had been erected in memory of the troop. The memorial is of Welsh slate and inscribed with the names of No.3 troop, it gives very little else information.

    Its nice to know a bit more of their exploits.

    Peter.
     
  4. Martin Sugarman

    Martin Sugarman Junior Member

    To Ron and Peter Clare - sadly the Chair of the No 3 Troop veterans, himself Jewish (Judge Grant), does not like the idea of the Troop being described as such even though 98% of them were. So the memorial at Aberdovey says NOTHING about their ethnic origin although local people know; it is a disgrace that it was not inscribed that they were "mostly Jewish refugees from Europe" as we aked , and as a result AJEX were deliberately TOLD to stay away by Judge Grant aka Goldschmitt, for the unveiling. Martin Sugarman (AJEX Achivist and collator of the No 3 Troop Record of Honour, now enlarged following more research, and on the web site of the Jewish virtual library - google on "No. 3 Jewish Troop")
    Link to update: No 3 (Jewish) Troop, No.10 Commando
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Welcome aboard Martin,

    Interesting stuff.
    Did the Judge give any specific reason for his views? If he is chair of the veterans then might there not be good reason for them not wishing for the Jewish reference on their own memorial to their own actions?

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  6. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Martin

    Many thanks for the additional data to which I have taken the liberty of adding a link.

    To others reading this item, may I add that Martin is one of the foremost researchers of the Jewish contribution to the Armed Forces in both World Wars as a search on "Martin Sugarman" in GOOGLE will soon make evident.
     
  7. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Welcome Martin and thanks for the additional info.
     
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Martin,
    Welcome to the site.
    I've a few queries.
    Chair of the No 3 Troop veterans, himself Jewish

    Who voted him to that position or did he nominate himself? As if you and other members didn't agree with his dicission the can he be voted out?
    says NOTHING about their ethnic origin
    Did the men of that unit see themselves as "different" or just another "mob" of Tommies.

    Finally I read 10 Cdo HQ was at Harlech, we used to have every summer holiday there in the 1970s when I was little. Where was the HQ located ?
     
  9. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

    Was this force the one which went into several missions together with the SAS in North Africa, or was it another jewish-origin unit?
     
  10. Martin Sugarman

    Martin Sugarman Junior Member

    Welcome aboard Martin,

    Interesting stuff.
    Did the Judge give any specific reason for his views? If he is chair of the veterans then might there not be good reason for them not wishing for the Jewish reference on their own memorial to their own actions?

    Cheers,
    Adam.
    Dear Adam

    Grant has been chair for years; to answer the psychology of this would take time; if you wish to talk, call me any evenng after 8pm on [phone number removed] but briefly, excluded from school, abused, ostracised, driven out of Germany, interned in UK, abused, allowed only into Pioneer Corps and then finally to fight bravely, they had had enough of being Jewish and this leads to denial and conversion (Grant is Quaker now). This is NOT a good reason to behave as he does, but it explains thier issues with life. Some of his veterans disageed with him strongly and told me in writing, but did not wish to break rank, hence the decsion. Two totally denied Jewish roots but their families e mailed me and said they were a Jewish; when I pointed this out to them, they did not answer me after several exchanges of e mails etc .So it goes on.

    Martin Sugarman
     
  11. Martin Sugarman

    Martin Sugarman Junior Member

    Martin,
    Welcome to the site.
    I've a few queries.

    Who voted him to that position or did he nominate himself? As if you and other members didn't agree with his dicission the can he be voted out?
    Did the men of that unit see themselves as "different" or just another "mob" of Tommies.

    Finally I read 10 Cdo HQ was at Harlech, we used to have every summer holiday there in the 1970s when I was little. Where was the HQ located ?
    Owen - Grant has been Chair for years and has retained the post as others I guess do not want to do it - the usual inertia on many committees; admired as former judge and war hero too. I am post war born; not a member but a historian.

    In several of their memorirs - especially Peter Masters "Striking Back" book - they saw themselves as Jews fighting the Nazis under British banner and proud of both - simple; but not all of them ; some just as anti-Nazis, some as now 100% British; after War many went to USA or back to Germany and Austria (loyal to German democracy, history, educating young Germnans - very diverse reasons. HQ was Aberdovey

    Martin Sugarman
     
  12. Martin Sugarman

    Martin Sugarman Junior Member

    Was this force the one which went into several missions together with the SAS in North Africa, or was it another jewish-origin unit?
    Different unit - you are thinking of the SIG - German Jews dressed as Germans - see movie "Tobruk" with Rock Hudson and my article "Lions of Judah" (google)
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Martin ,
    Thanks for reply and making me look into a subject I've not really looked into before.

    As for Harlech this site says 10 Cdo HQ at Harlech, as opposed to the Troop HQ.
    Sorry for any confusion.
    http://www.commandoveterans.org/history_10cdo.html

    The Commando had its H.Q. in Harlech North Wales and was commanded by LtCol D Lister MC . The French were greatest in numbers and formed two troops based in Criccieth ,the Dutch troop was at Portmadoc ,the two Belgian troops were at Abersoch, Norwegians were in Nevin, Polish troop were at Fairbourne and X troop were stationed at Aberdovey.
     
  14. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

    I was thinking exactly of that movie and of a book I read about the SAS in which they are mentioned, but didnĀ“t remember the name. Thanks for the info.

    Now, going back to No. 10 Commando, do you know about some operations they were involved in?
     
  15. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Was this force the one which went into several missions together with the SAS in North Africa, or was it another jewish-origin unit?

    You are correct. the nucleus of the Commando unit came from chaps who had been in action in the Western Desert. However, only a few volunteered some 5,000 or so who remained in Egypt were later formed into the Jewish Brigade. The North Irish Horse supported the Brigade in its first successful operation and, later, during the final battles in the Po Valley. For more info see:
    The Jewish Brigade Page 1

    Gerry
     
  16. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Gerry

    Many thanks for the piece on the Jewish Brigade, surprisingly enough I don't remember previously seeing that particular article, where does it come from ?

    Hi Warlord

    If you would like to "flesh out" the Jewish Brigade story provided by Gerry, you could do worse than use this link: BBC - WW2 People's War - Sgt.Major Mick Goldstein, Royal Fusiliers and Jewish Brigade
    to read about my dear late brother Mick who was a British volunteer in the same unit

    Cheers

    Ron
     
  17. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Gerry

    Many thanks for the piece on the Jewish Brigade, surprisingly enough I don't remember previously seeing that particular article, where does it come from ?


    Hi Ron,

    It's one of an ongoing series I am writing of Churchill/Ground Troops co-operation.

    Cheers, Gerry
     
  18. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

    What finally happened to the SIG? Was it merged with 10 Commando, the Jewish Brigade, or was it disbanded?
     
  19. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    The following name is en scribed on the Aberdovey War Memorial of which I am researching.

    Pte 6387023/13118619 Laddy/Laddie, Max,

    which leads to an interesting commando unit.

    One of the best kept secrets of World War II, however, has been the nature of the existence of No. 3 (Miscellaneous or "X" Troop) of the unique No. 10 (Inter-Allied) Commando/Special Services Brigade. The reason? They were virtually all German speaking Jewish refugees mainly from Germany and Austria (but also some from Czechoslovakia, Hungary and other European countries).

    No 3 (Jewish) Troop, No.10 Commando
     
  20. Martin Sugarman

    Martin Sugarman Junior Member

    To correspondents on this - SIG were disbanded after Tobruk raid (see the film "Tobruk") and most went inTO sas/sbs/cOMMANDOS/jEWISH bRIGADE.

    For No 10 Commando and No 3 Troop, see Ian Dear's "No 10 Commando" and Peter Masters "Fighting Back" (especially)


    Martin Sugarman
     

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