New series - Blitz Street

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by nicks, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Yes Adam, I'm looking forward to the V2 simulation as well!
    After the damage to end wall of the remaining block I guess one big shake of the foundations and the whole lot will come down. Strange how the gable wall has started to bow out without actually falling.
    Did I hear right the V2 simulation willl be the largest explosion on mainland Britain since WW2?

    Mike
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Yes Adam, I'm looking forward to the V2 simulation as well!
    After the damage to end wall of the remaining block I guess one big shake of the foundations and the whole lot will come down. Strange how the gable wall has started to bow out without actually falling.
    Did I hear right the V2 simulation willl be the largest explosion on mainland Britain since WW2?

    Mike

    Mike I believe they did say it would be the largest with explosives.

    It is still so raw in many peoples eyes .The chap said he lost his family and just got on with it.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    What was the point of the simulated V1 blast?
    They said they only used 1/7th of the charge.
    That was the only bit I watched, I was watching Joanna Lumley down the Nile.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The Wind apparently meant they'd have caused too much local noise pollution with the full explosives mate, so they used sciencey-jiggery-pokery to work out an equivalent blast, but from a closer distance.
    Real shame, but they looked pretty disappointed about it too.
     
  5. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    I watch this but I am undecided if I like it or not ?!?!

    I also looked at the Ch4 website about it.

    I now have both of the mass graves of unidentified victims of the Belfast Blitz on my site.

    The one in Milltown Cemetry refers to them being "Killed By Enemy Action"
     
  6. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Gonna watch last nights tonight.

    Regards to the V2 - it's amazing how much damage a flying gas main can make!
     
  7. rudicantfail

    rudicantfail Member

    Hi guys

    Only just got to watch the 3rd episode, {due to shift work} and although I have found the series quite interesting, the V1 was a disappointment. I thought the whole purpose of this programme was to evaluate the power of WW2 explosives against 1930/1940's style structures. To down grade the amount of explosives for the "V1" defeats the purpose of the exercise. If the wind was too strong, wrong direction etc, wait for another day. Health and safety in this country is beyond belief! If they could not do the V1 demonstration without "upsetting some civvies", then to be quite honest, they may as well not even bother with the V2 explosion. Plus, and I know that it comes down to costs, but for a unique experiment as this one, why did they not build three rows of terraced houses instead of the two? The V2 explosion is just going to show a couple of walls collapse, because the first terrace is completely gone, and the second is so flimsy now, a strong gust of wind could bring the remaining structure down. At least if there had been a third terrace, the effect of the V2 blast could be seen against a completely intact building.

    As I say, it has been quite interesting, but in true British style, it's been done ,half-heartedly and on the cheap. There will never be another experiment like this, so why not do it properly once and for all!
     
  8. les3011

    les3011 Junior Member

    I am interested in seeing the simulated V2 explosion and resulting effects because my father's first wife (31yrs) and daughter (9yrs) were killed on 9th February 1945 by a V2 when it hit the corner of Tavistock Place in St.Pancras (now Camden) at the office of the Presbyterian Church. Several houses were totally demolished by the explosion and following shock wave; many other houses, including the Church offices were partially demolished. Official figures record that 34 people were killed as a result of that incident and all of the recovered bodies were taken to the ARP mortuary in Medburn Street.
    A further 121 were reported injured and my late older brother (aged 5 years) was one of those survivors.
     
  9. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Rudicantfail stated.
    <As I say, it has been quite interesting, but in true British style, it's been done ,half-heartedly and on the cheap. There will never be another experiment like this, so why not do it properly once and for all! >

    A statement without a lot of thought. To recreate the blitz, a whole town would have to be created, Planes and bombs sourced, and real people used.
    Holes can be picked in every project after the event.
    In my opinion its a great programme,and worth watching, and the data which has been obtained at Spadeadam will be worth its weight in gold.
     
  10. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    I think part of the reason that they didn't bury the bombs before detonation was because by the looks of it (at the start of the 1st episode) they didn't build the houses with any foundations, just put them right on top of th concrete.

    Not that I know what I'm talking about, but my ignorant logic tells me that the first couple of explosions could have done a lot more damage to the building and they would have been flattened before the bigger bombs were tested.

    If someone knows if that would have affected things then I'd like to know :)
     
  11. DoctorD

    DoctorD WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    or Give us back our Imperial measurements :mad111:

    I thought I had posted an objection earlier on this thread regarding Tony Robinson's persistent use of Pascals and kiloPascals to illustrate how much pressure it takes to blow a wall down, or perhaps to kill somebody. But my rant seems to have gone astray - perhaps my ire caused me to hit the wrong key :lol:. So here goes ...

    Just because the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (1623-62) defined pressure in a fluid, they took this as an excuse to propose an SI pressure unit bearing his name for the Systéme International. (I couldn't find a grave accent for the 'e')

    Although scientifically up-to-date and, of course, very BBC p.c., surely it would be more easily understood by most of us, to use the more familiar pounds per square inch (lbf/sq inch) than 'obsure' SI units. I wonder whether Tony asks his garage mechanic to top up his tyre pressures to 206,843 Pascals, 207 kiloPascals or perhaps 206,843 Newtons per square metre, instead of 30 lb/sq inch.:ukflag[1]:

    I know how mine would react K.I.S.S!:p

    Since in the dark ages of my Studentship I had to suffer changes from Imperial Units (foot, pound, seconds) to cgs (centimetre, gramme, seconds), then MKS (Metre, kilogramme, seconds) followed by SI (with things like Newtons & Teslas), to say nothing of Fahrenheit and Celsuis, it's little wonder my mind is boggled. So just in case I got the conversion wrong 1 Pascal = 0.000145 lbf/sq inch (approximately, it seems!:unsure:)
     
  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    The series features the V2 tonight
     

    Attached Files:

  13. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    I have yet to watch any of these yet but I have V+ them all :)
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I have really enjoyed it so far and the clip last week of the V-2 going off was rather impressive.

    Well done Chan 4 !
     
  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    The V2 explosion was huge.
    Several thousand tons of earth thrown up and massive debris.


    I hope it had a wide TV audience .
     
  16. Snarf

    Snarf Junior Member

    As one of the people initially consulted on this series I thought I might try and answer some of the things posed on here (if I can remember without going back through!).

    The houses won't have foundations, they're built on a solid concrete pad. The SC500 (was that the second one?) was uncased so would have been slightly unrealistic as some of the energy from the blast goes into breaking up the casing. The issue is with something of that size, the fragmentation from the blast would've gone outside the safety range of the site (there are other activities going on at Spadeadam!).

    The SC1000 was scaled down using standard explosive scaling laws, i.e. by moving the blast closer, you can reduce the explosive size but get the same pressures out of the blast at the relevant distance.

    The met conditions are quite important to the site, as the blasts can sometimes be heard (and felt) as far away as Carlisle if the conditions are wrong (I'm guessing if you could figure out what day the V2 blast was set off and found some of the earthquake monitors scattered around you'd find it'd register on them!).

    I'm a bit disappointed with the V2 blast, burying the weapon mitigates alot of the blast. It would depend on whether you'd hit soft or hard ground as to whether that would be more realistic.

    As for the velocity of the weapon, this generally wouldn't have an affect on the blast, but would affect the flight path of fragmentation (which obviously didn't exist in most these tests!). Also, I think I'm right in saying these were instantaneous fuses (don't shoot me if I'm wrong!) and they do go off pretty instantly (I'm guessing alot less than 1ms which at say 250m/s would mean burial of less than 0.25m).

    I think that answers alot of what was in here. However, even though it may not have been entirely realistic, there's alot of science that can be learnt from this!

    Oh, one thing I forgot, fragmentation may well have made a mess of those houses (especially on the larger rockets), so somewhat unrealistic in those terms!
     
  17. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Snarf

    thanks for the update
     
  18. rudicantfail

    rudicantfail Member

    I too was somewhat disappointed with the V2 blast, it seemed to remind me of one of those WW1 mines detonated under a trench system! Impressive explosion yes, but did they not bury the explosives too deep, in soft, peaty moorland? Also, with the fairly steep slope leading up to the remaining terraced housing, much of a blast would have been deflected away from the buildings. So, neither the "earth" shock wave, nor the "air" shock wave could properly work for the experiment. A shame really, but still an interesting programme. Just to go back to a previous comment I made, which was picked up on:
    Rudicantfail stated.
    <As I say, it has been quite interesting, but in true British style, it's been done ,half-heartedly and on the cheap. There will never be another experiment like this, so why not do it properly once and for all! >

    A statement without a lot of thought. To recreate the blitz, a whole town would have to be created, Planes and bombs sourced, and real people used.
    Holes can be picked in every project after the event.
    In my opinion its a great programme,and worth watching, and the data which has been obtained at Spadeadam will be worth its weight in gold.


    at no stage was I suggesting a whole town, planes, people, etc, etc! I was suggesting that a third row of terraced houses would have been a better option, as the first row was a mere pile of rubble by the end of the third experiment, still with a further three detonations to take place. {At that stage, I did not know that the "V2" experiment would have so little effect on the buildings!} I also felt that the explosives should have been placed in some kind of metal container, bomb shaped if you really want to pay attention to detail. {Explosion from a cardboard container being different from bursting out of metal.} I know that the hazard from shrapnel was a hi lighted, by this was a one off study, so protect any other buildings at risk, stop any other military work doing on at he facility.
    the fragmentation from the blast would've gone outside the safety range of the site (there are other activities going on at Spadeadam!).

    I do not know if Snarf if meaning the "test range" or the entire military site area here, but Spadeadam is located in the middle of nowhere! I have never been to this range during my military days, so I do not know much about the place, but as I understand it, it covers a large area, miles of moorland and forest area. I can not locate the area where "Blitz Street" took place, but if you look on Google Earth, you will see the sort of terrain the site is located in.
    In the case of the "V1" experiment, why not delay the detonation until the weather was suitable enough for a full scale explosions to take place! It is a military test site. Explosions are meant to happen. Nobody will bother to conduct this study again, so why not do it as accurately as possible!

    Apart from those holes that I picked in the programme, it was very interesting, even if Tony Robinson can not pronounce "Peenemünde " correctly. Oh! I just picked another hole in the series!:D
     
  19. Snarf

    Snarf Junior Member

    I do not know if Snarf if meaning the "test range" or the entire military site area here, but Spadeadam is located in the middle of nowhere! I have never been to this range during my military days, so I do not know much about the place, but as I understand it, it covers a large area, miles of moorland and forest area. I can not locate the area where "Blitz Street" took place, but if you look on Google Earth, you will see the sort of terrain the site is located in.
    In the case of the "V1" experiment, why not delay the detonation until the weather was suitable enough for a full scale explosions to take place! It is a military test site. Explosions are meant to happen. Nobody will bother to conduct this study again, so why not do it as accurately as possible!


    The area where it took place is 55.045551,-2.580651 (should work in Google maps). The pad has a pond in the top right, the houses were built near to the bottom of the pad with the slope at the bottom of the south side.

    The problem is that Spadeadam is essentially a "working" site with other experiments set up in different places, other people around the main site (not necessarily where this was taking place) and there is farmland around with animals. The fragmentation throw has to be kept to a minimum to
    1) Ensure safety for personnel around Spadeadam
    2) Ensure safety for for other "creatures"
    3) Ensure that bits of metal aren't left laying around in the road/fields

    You'd be surprised how far fragmentation can go!

    I agree that explosions are meant to happen, however there's an element of keeping the local population "happy". They're aware that these things take place, much like someone who lives near a runway accepts a level of aircraft noise. But if you start running afterburning aircraft around these people, they'll start to get mighty annoyed. If you start setting off massive charges (and they do make one hell of a bang!) you start upsetting people (as I said, one large charge was physically felt by the locals, not something that usually happens!).
     
  20. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    So, neither the "earth" shock wave, nor the "air" shock wave could properly work for the experiment. A shame really, but still an interesting programme.

    Wouldn't the ground shock have been irrelevant unless it had been big enough to have an effect on the concrete pad/raft itself?
     

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