My Uncle, Martin Long and the loss of HMLCT 488

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Mike L, Oct 19, 2011.

  1. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    As a young lad, during visits to my Grandmother’s house in Preston, Lancashire I remember being intrigued by a frame above her fireplace. It was explained to me that it was in memory of my Uncle, but it really didn’t mean much to me at the time.
    Following my Grandmothers death my Father brought the frame back to our home in Essex and several years later we started to research the circumstances of Martin’s death.
    Apparently my Grandmother never wanted to know the details of the loss of her second son, although according to other family members it plagued her until her dying day.
    I am now rather glad that she never heard of the sad story of the 9th LCT Flotilla in October 1944.
    Terry (my Father) started by approaching the Naval Historical Branch and received a reply from the MOD, attached below.

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  2. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Later he went down the route that we would all now recommend and requested Martin’s Service record from the Royal Navy. Unfortunately, despite requesting the full record, what arrived was only a single page.
    So now we had somewhere to start and the research really started, albeit rather slowly.
    As we made some progress Terry wrote a few pages about his Brother.

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  3. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Pictures of Martin, first as an AB, later as a Petty Officer. The latter was used on his memorial frame, probably during home leave around the time of his 21st Birthday.
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    We discoverd that LCT 488 was a Mark 3 LCT (Tank Landing Craft) and found a drawing of a Mk3 at the National Maritime Museum plans and photos department at Woolwhich, London.
    We bought a copy of the plan - it is about 6 feet long - and shows amazing details of these often underestimated vessels. The plan is copyright NMM but below is a rough plan of the vessel.
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  5. Mathsmal

    Mathsmal Senior Member

    Hi

    This is taken from Navy and Naval History.Net

    16 Oct 1944


    LCT.488, foundered, stress of weather, Lands End, ship loss,18th-19th
    ARMSTEAD, Stanley, Leading Wireman, D/MX 510022, MPK
    BELL, Peter G, Ty/Sub Lieutenant, RNZNVR, MPK
    COCKBILL, Alfred C, Wireman, D/MX 630047, MPK
    GLADMAN, Reginald J, Telegraphist, C/JX 616299, MPK
    LONG, Martin, Petty Officer Motor Mechanic, C/MX 126648, MPK
    THOMAS, Arthur P P, Ty/Sub Lieutenant, RNVR, MPK

    LCT.491, foundered, stress of weather, Lands End, ship loss, 18th-19th
    EDWARDS, Charles J, Able Seaman, P/JX 328647, MPK


    I have heard of a number of stories of LCTs literally coming apart in rough weather due to their construction. This appears to be the case with your Uncle's LCT.

    I am sure you've seen all these sites before, but just in case:

    The 9th LCT Flotilla
    Stanley Armstead - Leading Wireman LCT 488 and here (Bourne Valley Historical Soc)
     
  6. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Mathsmal,
    Thank for those links, I have seen most of them before and I contributed the 'green list' research to the Combined Ops website about the 9th Flotilla.
    Re Stanley Armstead, here is the full story written by a member of his family.
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  7. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    A survivor's account of events. Taken from Lund and Ludlam's 'The War of the Landing Craft'.
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  8. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Primary report of Sub-Lt. Steele, C.O. of LCT 488:
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  9. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Mike L
    Thank you very much for sharing a slice of your family history, I had heard of the LCT's being "Thrown Together
     
  10. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Thanks Oldman, it is rather a tragic story and I have more to post yet.

    Extract from signal log of HMS Knaresborough Castle:

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  11. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    In June 1995 I came across this article in Readers Digest:

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  12. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    As a result of the Readers Digest article we contacted Ray Connelly and he was kind enough to send some information he had found - mainly extracts from the Admiralty War Diary:
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    More from the War Diary:
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Final two pages:
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Report by G.E. Newey, Senior Officer Escort Group B23:
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  16. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Report by Read, C.O. HMS Allington Castle.

    Many of these documents are 'foolscap' and I only have an A4 scanner!

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  17. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    So from initial research into the loss of a single Landing Craft a very tragic story involving the loss of several was discovered.
    Of the 9 LCTs under tow on this convoy 6 were lost, several with their entire crews and most with loss of at least some crew members. In all over 50 RN sailors died over 3 days of one of the worst storms of World War Two. The severity of the gale scattered the convoy and several merchant and RN ships suffered heavy damage.

    As may be expected a Board of Enquiry was held in Gibraltar on 1st November 1944 chaired by Vice Admiral Burrough. The records are difficult to read being handwritten, but the content seems rather strange given the events.
    The emphasis of the Board seems to concentrated on the lack of Medical Officers carried by the Escort Group, rather than the more obvious cause of such loss of life - sending (not just fully crewed but with additional crew on board) vessels such as LCTs on such a long voyage with hasty preparation and with a storm imminent.
    Seems to me to be a case of a Vice Admiral not wishing to criticise the Admiralty in general and whoever ordered the convoy to sail with LCTs in tow. It does also raise another question - why have merchant ships tow two LCTs?
    Of course meteorology was not as advanced then as it is today but there was also a marked reluctance of COs to admit they needed to head for shelter when problems started to manifest themselves.
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  18. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    I have not uploaded all the documents we found as some are near dupicates and things such as casualty lists are often incomplete. It may be that there were more Boards of Enquiry held - I believe one was held in Liverpool - and I will carry on researching these LCTs and the convoy (might be meeting Ramacal at Kew in a week or two). I have also looked into the composition of the whole convoy and several forum members have been kind enough to provide specific information or links to assist in that. I might start a new thread about that at some point.

    During the course of research both my Father and I joined the LST and Landing Craft Association (who recently laid their colour up) and their historian, Tony Chapman has been very helpful. As mentioned earlier the Combined Operations website has a page dedicated to the 9th Flotilla which includes some 'Green List' research I carried out at Kew.

    Very sadly the last Mk3 LCT now lies semi-submerged at her berth in Birkenhead, a victim of the collapse of the Historic Warships Trust.

    Through this forum I have been in touch with many people and I have been involved for more than a year with assisting an Australian archaeologist on Crete Landing Craft, which may result with a diving/research trip to Crete at some point. I have more recently been helping Ali Mayor with her LCT 427 project. It is very satisfying to be able to help others by offering the benefit of much slowly gained knowledge.

    I recently obtained, through one of my Cousins, something I never expected to see. A copy of Martin's last letter home, written on LCT 488 on the 12th October 1944, just 6 days before he died. He clearly knew he would be in for a long journey and I feel he is understating the dangers involved. When I first read it it was without doubt he most touching moment in any research I have done.

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    Owen likes this.
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thanks for posting all that info, especially his last letter, all very interesting , cheers.

    (although may I suggest resizing them to about 700 to 800 pixels wide, makes it easier to read, they're all rather large files at the moment)
     
  20. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Cheers Owen, PM sent asking how to do that.
    One thing that has really bugged me for years is something my Father Terry mentioned in one of the early posts. He mentioned Martin returning from America via the Azores and bringing Bananas with him.
    We have solid evidence of Martin being in New York, Bermuda and the Azores but it does not appear in his (single page) service record. There are records and accounts of RN sailors crossing the Atlantic and bringing back LSTs from New York shipyards via Bermuda and the Azores, but if Martin was one of them why does it not appear on his record? I know it is only an abbreviated record and why his full service record is apparently not available concerns me.
     

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