Was chatting with the other half about Mess Silver centerpieces a few weeks ago, then coincidentally saw this in a copy of the Royal Anglian Regiment's journal from 1976. Garrard M110. Must have been some fascinating commissions over the years. Thought it might be nice to have a place to share stuff we might bump into regarding these often unusual treasures. Any period, though obviously WW2 stuff has its own interest. Just reading how the Royal Irish Fusiliers' plate was briefly under German occupation in Guernsey. Liberating the Mess Silver | Royal Irish - Virtual Military Gallery
I remember this 9th Lancer example came up for auction towards the end of last year (2018), it was "sold to a retired officer of the regiment" - so it maybe a private purchase or maybe destined to return to them, not sure. Lancers’ silver standard sells at Lawrences | Antiques Trade Gazette "Standing 21in (53cm) tall on its plinth, and hallmarked for Stephen Smith (London 1872), it depicts a Lancer officer kitted out for patrol with his mount and is engraved A 9th Lancer Indian Mutiny 1857-58. A plaque records the name and service details of Surgeon Major John Clifford of the 9th Dragoons, who was attached to the 9th Lancers throughout the Mutiny (more properly now called the First War of India’s Independence). His Mutiny Medal included three bars for Lucknow, Relief of Lucknow and Delhi. After a series of Army amalgamations, the 9th Lancers, described in their day as ‘the beau ideal of what a British Cavalry Regiment ought to be in oriental countries’, is today part of the armoured cavalry regiment, The Royal Lancers (Queen Elizabeth’s Own). Attachment to the history of the regiment, founded in 1715 as Owen Wynne’s Regiment of Dragoons in response to the Jacobite uprising, remains strong. Pitched at £8000-10,000, the centrepiece sold to a retired officer of the regiment at £12,300." Also Twitter has a fair few examples, of regimental silver pieces and collections posted, including a company that values a regiment's silver and apparently produces catalogs. Silverlady (@silverladyltd) | Twitter e,g, "Does your Regt require an updated silver valuation? We provide a full comprehensive database of all your silver pieces, professionally bound & presented in an embossed hardbacked folder along with an electronic copy rickjenningsconsultant.co.uk @AGCSgtMaj @AGCReserve@BritishArmy pic.twitter.com/Of0m1Zb55N" I think (from the website's cached pages) that they have a website with examples - of their work - but the website may be down for maintenance at the mo.
Many regiments have (fairly) recently been amalgamated so many times that they simply have more Mess Silver than they can manage or maintain. In such cases, items deemed to be surplus to requirements are generally offerd to the descendants of the original donor if identifiable. If not, they are offered for sale (often by a form of auction) to officers, serving or retired, of the regiment. Any items still left could well be disposed of by means of public auction. Some items might also be donated to Regimental Museums. Chris
Until recently I worked in industry casting metal into models (toy soldiers). In the pub after work one day I met a chap whose company actually made those silver mess models and he explained to me how they did it. Gave away the trade secret he did.
A friend of mine, a jeweller of some repute - and militaria collector has made a number of such peices for himself. If anyone is interested I'll take some photos? Cheers Emps
A tricky subject. One of our 67th Field Regt Relatives group (an ex policeman) asked what had happened to the silver he saw when taking his father to a reunion in 1998. I jokingly remarked that they had probably flogged it as the regiment was disbanded in 1971. The TA Centre was moved several times and the units in occupation changed. He went proper "nana's" insisting that I go take a look. After 6 months I got the ok to see it "somewhere in Worcester" on a shelf covered in dust locked in a secure archive room. A lesson in the learning! . Photo taken in previous TA Centre (now demolished) at the last reunion circa 2005
The Gunners are unusual in that much of their Mess Silver belongs to their Batteries rather than their Regiments (or, perhaps, it used to). Repute has it that there exists a repository somewhere (Larkhill?) wherein is stored the silver of batteries now disbanded. Raise a new battery (or reraise an old one), and indent for the silver that belonged to its numerical predecessor! Chris
During my search for the silver I rang Larkhill speak to the Curator. Got a message back referring me to the TA Centre as they have no records of the Regt Odd because I later found that Captain Foster MC donated his Maps and Target Data for Anzio and later, to Woolwich as he lived in the London area.
I understand that Silver from disbanded units is held in a central location and issued to appropriate new units. At 44.Para Bde.V. Rifle Meetings the prize for one of the Shooting Competitions was the Volongdis Cup.( Engraved as such) This was originally the Volunteers Long Distance Cycle Cup. In some Regiments personal Silver presentations are made to the Officers and WO's and Sgts Mess's . On disbanded out of courtesy the presenter if still around should contacted .in respect of its disposal. This does not always happen I still wonder what happened too ,two named presentations I made.
Royal Lancers & Nottinghamshire Yeomanry Museum: Appeal after large haul of silver stolen from museum
Stolen to order? Too hot to handle and more than likely melted down already unfortunately. Thieves cut through museum floor to steal 'priceless' silver antiques Will it ever see the light of day again? Kind regards, always, Jim.
Was on the local news last night. Small hole, things would've had to be bent/smashed to reach. Only one large cup left as they couldn't heave it through. I'd be astonished if it weren't all already melted down. Absolute Cs.
Thieves cut through museum floor to steal 'priceless' silver antiques - BBC News The 24L's - mostly purchased from 1940's Woolworths... Page 8 of NHL has the first officers' mess of the 24th Lancers being "bare, no furniture, no food, no crockery, no cutlery, no cooking utensils" and so as a result... "Major Desmond Miller raided the local Woolworths and bought up their entire stock of cutlery, glass and china"
It doesn't say that they went out that way. Probably used the fire escape. A dreadful oversight by the security people. Wouldn't it have been wonderful to stand above that hole, pouring burning pitch and oil.
