looking for POW info Royal Ulster Rifles

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by eiledon, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    my Granda was John Morrison born in Ballymoney April 1909. he was a rifleman in the Royal Ulster Rifles and his army number was 278259 i have done a bit of research and have discovered via Kevin Greenhalgh at Fallingbostel Military Museum that he was captured possibly in Dunkirk and spent his internment in Stalag 357. i am trying to find out more about his service history, medals etc. Faugh a Ballagh
  2. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Hi, and welcome! Here is the info from the POW list. Note that his POW number was 278259, army number was 6985537.


    First Name: J.
    Last Name: Morrison
    Rank: Rifleman
    Regt / Unit: Royal Ulster Rifles
    Soldier Number: 6985537
    Pow: Yes
    POW Number: 278259
    Camp: Stalag 357
    Camp Location: Oerbke, Lower Saxony

    Check the link in my signature for guidance on further research for your man.

    I would contact (Drew5233) or Lee (Psywar.org) on this forum via PM and ask if they can get your man's liberation report from KEW. Most filled them out, hopefully your man did. Lots of good info in them if they were detailed.

    Then submit a request for International Red Cross records and his Service Records.
    All necessary info to do this is in the above mentioned link.

  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hello and welcome to the forum. I offer a free copy service now for PoW Questionnaires but only if the units war diary is ordered so the problem would be that you are unsure of his unit. It's also worth pointing out that only about 40% of PoWs completed a questionnaire.
  4. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    thanks Jacksun. i got his army and POW numbers mixed up. will use your info and links to hopefully gather more about my Granda
  5. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    Drew5233 how do i go about finding out about POW questionaires. what info do you need to get a copy and is it a free service.
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    If you order his units war diary I will look up the PoW Questionnaire and if one exists (remember not everyone completed one) I will copy it and add it to your order for free. So in short all you pay for is the units war diary.There does seem to be a difference on the unit though. You think RUR and his service number points towards (but doesn't confirm) he was with the RIF from what Owen has found.

    If you want a copy I'll send you a PM regarding the total cost-I charge 10p per page for a diary.

  8. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    ok guys. leave it with me. so glad i found this site as i feel like i'm finally getting somewhere.
    the confusion re his regiment stems from a board in our church which has the names of parishoners who served during the war. it states name, rank and regiment. this is all i had to go on initially and it states RUR!!
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    It takes some time (6 to 12 mths) and costs £30 but may be applying for a copy of his service records is the best way forward? They will confirm his unit(s) and the dates he served with them.
  10. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    I'd try to pull the liberation report. If he completed one he would likely have listed his regt, maybe not specific unit/coy but it may help clarify things. He also may have put down where he was captured which will help identify which diary you may need.

    I'd also order his service records and IRC records right away to get the wait started as soon as possible.

    One thing is for certain, peoples memories can be wrong but the docs will be more than likely accurate.
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    ok guys. leave it with me. so glad i found this site as i feel like i'm finally getting somewhere.
    the confusion re his regiment stems from a board in our church which has the names of parishoners who served during the war. it states name, rank and regiment. this is all i had to go on initially and it states RUR!!

    Sorry to confuse you, all I was trying to show was he enlisted into R Inns Fus before at some point transfering to RUR.
  12. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    thanks Owen. i grew up always having someone close to me in the army and still the regiments, brigades, batallions , companies, etc etc etc baffles me!!!
    Faugh a Ballaugh
  13. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    i have recieved an attestation from the ICRC giving me information about my Grandfather. i have learned that he was captured in Italy on Feb 9th 1944 but not where. i would be interested if anyone would know which areas or battles in which British troops were captured. he was a Corporal/Rifleman in the Royal Ulster Rifles and was held in stalag IVB then transferred to 357.
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Merged your new thread into exisitng one as duplicate threads on same topic lead to confusion & dupliaction of effort.

    Dont think any RUR battalions were Italy but the London Irish Rifles were very closely linked to the RUR.
    Captured in Italy in feb 44 , I reckon he may have been in LIR.
    I've PMed Bexley84 who is a bit of an expert on the LIR in Italy.


  15. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    I would suggest John Morrison was serving at the time with the 1st Battalion, London Irish Rifles (1 LIR). You'll know that the RUR weren't in Italy at any time.

    Sadly Anzio was one of a number of difficult encounters for 1 LIR during 1943/44.

    Read about 1 LIR's experiences at Anzio here - quite grim. The battalion had nearly 600 men, killed wounded or missing during their 6 weeks in the bridgehead...



    dbf and Owen like this.
  16. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    bexley84 would it have been the done thing for regiments to merge or integrate??? i am confused as i now have Royal Ulster Rifles, Royal Inniskilling Fusileers and London Irish Rifles as regiments my Granda was/ or could have been with.
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Men were sent to any regiment the army needed them.
    A man could join up with one regiment to do his basic training & then be posted to a completely different one.
    Even then he may get posted to another one, so a soldier serving in different regiments is not at all uncommon.
  18. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    No need to be confused.

    There was no merging of regiments in these cases - (probably) just an individual (your grandfather) transferring between the different units. Transfers often occurred between regiments for officers, and sometimes for ORs.

    "Most" London Irish Rifles' (LIR) officers during 1939-45 were originally commissioned into the Royal Ulster Rifles (RUR), although a number were from the Royal Irish Fusiliers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers (The Skins) and also from other regiments. Other ranks (ORs) of the LIR were usually RUR numbered, although men had explicitly joined up with the LIR (my Dad was 7015972, a RUR army number, but most definitely had no affiliation/personal connection with the RUR) , but as casualties rose, transfers were pretty wide spread amongst both officers and ORs right across the British Army. You'll also note that LIR men who died are listed in the CWGC database as Royal Ulster Rifles, 1st (or 2nd) Bttn London Irish Rifles,

    Your grandfather joined The Skins on enlistment (his army number shows that) but looks like he transferred to the London Irish Rifles at some point before Anzio..The LIR were a connected unit with the RUR - since the 1920s but more formally since 1937. See below the excerpt from their regimental history.

    ".....ties between the London Irish Rifles and the Royal Ulster Rifles (RUR), which before 1921 was known as the Royal Irish Rifles, were greatly strengthened, and the London Irish became part of the Corps of the RUR in 1929. In 1937, when the London Regiment was disbanded, the LIR became known as London Irish Rifles, The Royal Ulster Rifles. .."

    Dates of enlistment / postings overseas etc should be clear from the army records of your grandfather.

  19. eiledon

    eiledon Junior Member

    thanks bexley84. that has clered that up for me. unfortunately i dont have any of his service records which is why i got in touch with the ICRC. this is all the info i have so am now trying to piece together where he was captured.
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Send off for his service records if you want to know the answers.

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