If Operation Barbarossa had been delay by one year?

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by Tacoboy, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Man makes plans and God laughs
    Chris C likes this.
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    It's "easy" enough to google too... although again, without knowing why it matters, it's probably best to wait another year or so, and then google the question again....



    (I've switched the first two lines around so that the quote comes after the quoted source...)

    Field Marshall Walther von Brauchitsch, on examining Russian T34 tanks for the first time:

    If the Russians produce these in an assembly line, then we’ve lost the war”

    Any delay would have favoured the Russians, as the main German advantage was that they started rearming with the latest modern weaponry faster than anyone else. In the 1930’s there was a big advance in military technology. 6 ton tanks were being replaced by 20 ton tanks, air-planes with wood and canvas wings were being replaced by all aluminium aircraft, etc. The advantage the Germans had over everyone else at beginning of WW2 was that Germany was going full on rearmament with new technology few years before everyone else. By 1940 everyone was rearming as fast as they could, and the German advantage would have eroded.

    For example, in 1941 Russia was just starting to replace the BT Tanks which had a 45mm gun and 6–13mm of armor, and had this annoying habit of bursting into flames and killing all the crew from slightest damage from enemy fire, with T34’s which had 76.2mm gun, 15–47mm of armor, unparalleled armor protection for the crew, and was regarded by even the Germans as vastly superior to their Panzer III’s and IV’s.

    When Barbarossa started T34’s were 4% of Russian tanks. One year later it would have been 30%.

    Shame it doesn't state a "source" :-(

    I have actually seen some war game scenarios where there is always a possibility for there to be a "delay" in any German moves against Russia, and thereby "test" the result...

    Making History II: The War of the World - Wikipedia
    (albeit "the game gives the user an information overload due to the amount of information to be processed and the cumbersome GUI which the player is forced to use"

    Counter-factual history etc. although again though, what's the point ;-) other than trying to figure out how the Nazi's could have "done better"...

    It's far more interesting perhaps? to see what actually occurred, and to study that, if you want to do things like find out why things happened the way that they did.
    A-58 likes this.
  4. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    A detailed and well reasoned response which appears to confirm most of what I have read on the subject. To put it in a nutshell, the men and material were used up more quickly than they could be replaced, literally in the case of the manpower, lines of communication were extended to the point of collapse and the Soviets had enough landmass to withdraw and regroup and maintain their industrial output.

    I also think that Stalin was very shrewd in agreeing to the Ribbentrop - Molotov Pact. Instead of having the might of the British Empire, the French Empire, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany and the United States against him, he was able to split the opposition by having the "Capitalists" fight amongst themselves which led to the weakening of Nazi Germany.

    I have also always believed that politics behaves like a pendulum, the further it swings to one extreme, the further it swings back to the other. In effect the Far Left creates the Far Right and the Far Right creates the Far Left, almost an equal an opposite reaction.

    It was inevitable that the twin evils of Fascism and Communism would get involved in a fight to the death. The sane and rational amongst us could only hope that they might both fatally wound each other. Alas, it was not to be.
    A-58 likes this.
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    A top arse invaded russia and lost no ifs no buts no vat
    TTH and Dave55 like this.
  6. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    And apparently no commas or full stops either.
  7. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Considering the the sheer boundless arrogance of the Wehrmacht officer corps, that is a damning record of logistical failure. However, IF the Germans had addressed these many failings and succeeded in a short, decisive campaign it probably would have ironically saved tens of millions of lives.

    Then again, Möglicherweise schreiben Sie dies auf Deutsch!
    CL1 and James S like this.
  8. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Whats with all the donkeys?

    You haven't gone large D Democrat, have you?
    CL1 likes this.
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Its better than his ass :lol::lol::lol:

    CL1 likes this.
  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    that mate is why im not on twatter or facecock
    i would have the grammar police after me plus i would be banned within the hour
    Ramiles likes this.
  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    what do you call a three legged donkey

    a wonkey
    Tricky Dicky likes this.

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