If Operation Barbarossa had been delay by one year?

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by Tacoboy, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    I've said before that I want to be just like Clive when I grow up. Not my fault that he may be a slightly imperfect role model.
     
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  2. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    And here we are......thread wrecked ...ah but..... What if Lenin had not made that train journey back into Russia in 1917,would the world be a different place?
     
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  3. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    What If the Germans hadn't been so determined to destabilise Czarist Russia that they wouldn't allow Lenin to board the sealed train that arrived in Petrograd?

    We can go on discussing cause and effect until Judgement Day so lets start at the beginning. What if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten that apple? Wait a minute, what if that apple tree hadn't been planted? What if the apple pip that grew into the apple tree hadn't been taken out of the apple? What if the apple that contained the pip hadn't been picked? And so on.
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Ahh - but how did the apple pip arrive there in the first place - what came first the tree or the pip?? or is that another chicken and egg scenario - if it was the tree then it needed to be there for sometime so it could grow enough to produce fruit - so what happened in the intervening years

    TD
     
  5. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I am sorry but this isn't a gardening forum, you will have to email Monty Don if you need horticultural advice.
     
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  6. A-58

    A-58 Not so senior Member

    Death where is thy sting....

    (I'm talking about this wrecked up thread, not me).
     
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  7. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    The extra time, something of an illusion - yes it would have provided more time but there were other factors that worked against the invading Germans.
    1. The logistics system was always an afterthought, something which would " sort itself out", the transport system was utterly inadequate both rail and road. The trucks used were gathered from all over Europe, there was no uniformity, spares were non-existent and most were totally unsuited to military service. Oil consumption by trucks obtained from France proved to have very high oil consumption.
    2. Spare parts, oil, servicing, virtually never happened. When they broke down they stayed broken down.
    3. Casualties - the Army was totally unprepared for losses on the scale both dead and wounded. Replacements never in anything remotely approaching the requirements.
    4. The distances - the army was marched to death and still had to fight, exhaustion took a toll.
    5. Tanks, never enough and again no spares, and only a trickle of replacements - servicing hardly ever took place - time and the materials never to hand.
    6. rations - the idea was that the Army would simply take what they needed to feed themselves - as a result, many of the civilian population starved.
    7. The plan changed - no account taken of the movement of men and tanks from one Army Group to another, already the Germans found they were simply not strong enough and as they advanced this problem became more pronounced.
    There was a difference in the strategy and direction of the operations between Hitler and his officers - increasingly demands were made which simply could not be met - order and reality - two different worlds.
    8. Fuel - never enough of it, so much used in shuttling it from railheads to distribution centres and beyond, also the nature of off-road operations meant high consumption rates.
    9. Food, clothing the everyday needs of the troops all secondary to the supply of fuel and munitions.
    By August the German forces were deeply in trouble they were in well over their heads and the invasion was behind schedule and was failing.
    Time was one factor but it was only one aspect, a 16 weeks quick war by October was already all but up and the severely weakened divisions both infantry and armoured were expected to take Moscow - this was totally beyond their ability.
     
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  8. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    ...And if it had been delayed for a year, maybe IT WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN AN EVEN QUICKER GERMAN DEFEAT.

    "If ifs and buts were candied nuts, we'd all have a hell of a Christmas."---Old American Saying
     
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  9. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    The window of opportunity for a German invasion was small and in June 1941 was closing, another year would not really have increased their chances in any way, just how they might have reacted to Japan's attack on the USA - might this have deflected an attack on Russia?
    The " what if" or alternative look whilst interesting in this instance only tends to confirm that in 1941 or 42 Germany was not the force she was projected to be.
     
  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  13. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  14. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  15. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  17. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  18. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  19. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  20. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

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