In my previous thread, http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/canadian/43023-looking-royal-highlanders-canada-info.html I got a great deal of help here with my father's military records and found out he was indeed with the Black Watch on the "Black Friday" in the battle of the Scheldt Estuary and Beveland. The only thing we couldn't figure out was the cap badge he wore since it clearly was not the Black Watch badge. However his records show that after the war he went into the R.C.O.C. I realized I have no pictures of him during the war, but only from 1946 onwards, so I think that's what the cap badge is. The Collector's Guild Since everyone here was so helpful, just thought I'd let you know that I believe (hope) the mystery to be solved.
Doreen, Oct 13, 1944 was a terrible day for the Black Watch. A friend in Toronto told me that his father was with the Black Watch and was wounded that day. Good to hear that the mystery is now solved.
Thanks. Actually, I do have two more questions: In most of the records I see "R.H.R" or "R.H.C"....but that IS the Black Watch. So why would "Black Watch" be specified on this particular record, when he was sent to join them for that battle? Also, why is this terrible battle so little known, when it lasted quite awhile and had such heavy casualities? I've googled and looked and found only one brief newsreel on YouTube. Not a whole lot is written either. I know my father was there on Oct 13, since it's mentioned on another page of the docs. Here's the part of the document concerning the transfer to the BW. Also mentioned is the "21 ag" which I"m not too sure about. Perhaps you have some insight?
DoreenC Different Company clerks - different ideas ! 21Ag= 21st Army Group( British 2nd army + 1st Canadian Army- rocket science stuff ) Cheers
Different Company clerks - different ideas ! Shaking my head here. I would never have thought of something so simple. Many thanks!
Doreen The British army worked on the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid -it had to be simple for people like myself and a few others- think about it - 1st and 8th Armies amalgamated in Tunisa to become the 18th Army group- Sicily - 7th US and Brit 8th armies became 15th army group- Italy 5th US and Brit 8th armies became 13th Army group.....OOPS- cancel that one ! Cheers Cheers
Thanks. Actually, I do have two more questions: In most of the records I see "R.H.R" or "R.H.C"....but that IS the Black Watch. So why would "Black Watch" be specified on this particular record, when he was sent to join them for that battle? The full official name of the regiment is... The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada. website>> The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada
@Owen: Yes, and on my father's burial certificate and everywhere in his military records, "Royal Highland Rgt" is used. Tom's very simple answer as to why "Black Watch" on that one document makes sense. It's obviously in different handwriting so just a personal choice of whoever wrote it. I must say I'm amazed at the meticulous records that were kept during such a chaotic time with such large numbers of men coming and going. Every detail is fully documented.
Doreen It is great to hear that you closed the circle on this part of your family History. If you wanted to get a very detailed look at the battle of the Schelt you should look up Denis Whitaker's book "tug of war" it is very well written and has a chapter on 'black Friday' as well as the troubles that followed the Black Watch placing them in this situation for the 2nd time. Lack of trained reinforcements was of crisis proportion going into the last 3 months of 1944 for all commonwealth infantry regiments, for Canada the cause was not the lack of eninforcments but the lack of political will to require concsripts to serve in Europe. At the time there was 70000 trained infantry men in Canada. Whitaker goes into this in detail.
^^Thanks. I'll certainly look into it. There's another book I found online. If you've read it, can you tell me which one would be preferable? Terrible Victory I'm still amazed that there is so little footage of this battle, but maybe people prefer to try and forget it.
Doreen They are both great you can probably get them at the local library or through the inter library loan system. Whitaker was the CO of the Royal Hamilton light infantry and was there right along with the BW on Friday 13th. The RHLI's were holding the start line for the BW, and Whitaker refused to have any part of the attack which would prove to be a disaster from the start. Zuekhke's book is well researched and uses many first hand accounts of the Infantry men on the ground. But it is Whitaker who makes you angry about the stupidity and futility of the campaign which should have never happened. Just my opinion. Matt
I didn't feel like chasing all over to try and find these books in a library and don't have an e-book reader, so just bit the bullet and ordered them from Amazon. I'm looking forward to reading personal accounts and seeing this event through the eyes of those who were there, especially of course my 22 year old father. Thanks for the title gpo's son!
