George Brown Born 1912 Manchester

I have recently found out that my grandfather may have served in the navy during WW2.
We were always of the opinion that he worked as a fireman at Shell Chemicals in Manchester, a reserved occupation but some doubt has been cast on this.
So, given I don't even have a service number or any info whatsoever, I don't know where to start.
What I do know is that in the 1939 Register at the age of 27, he is listed as living at home in Manchester and is in fact a bus driver, not yet a firemen!
His name is George Banham Brown, born in Manchester in 1912.
Any help in finding him would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Welcome to the forum
Others might add further but to confirm he did serve,read and follow this link on how to apply

Get a copy of military records of service

 

Thanks for the response, I've seen this already but I was hoping for a quicker route than that, I'm still waiting for a response to a similar request to the government service for my wifes father 6 months on.

 

Welcome to the forum,
You will not find anything about him online with respect to any service in the military if he was called up as an hostilites only (HO) rating. There is no quicker route unfortunately. May I ask how you may have found out that it was navy? Of course navy can also mean MN, you haven't specified.

Regards
Hugh

 

I've found a long lost relative living in Australia, George's daughter (my aunt), who filled me in on the basics.
She thinks he served on a number of minesweepers and was a qualified diver.
The route to his service records will be closed to me I think, I've filled in the government request form this morning but as he was born in 1912, the 1907 cut off point may apply, also, he died in 1980 in Australia, the daughter in question does not have his death certificate so will have to request a copy over there.

 

You need to continue the process and get the death cert which will help move it along.

 

I've just received my grandfathers service records from the navy search department, 4 pages which tell me very little but further research has suggested he did NOT actually serve on a sea going vessel!!
The letter states that information has been extracted from P&V ledgers as it was not recorded on his service record cards.

Any help in identifying what he actually did in the conflict would put some 'meat on the bones' so to speak and would be gratefully appreciated.

George Brown, service number KX602326 appears to have served from 29th September 1943 till 12 August 1946, enlisted as Stoker 2nd class and promoted to Stoker 1st class between 1st to 27 September 1944 whist stationed at HMS Medina.
He joined the service at HMS Duke and demobbed from HMS Quebec, serving at HMS Victory/ Medina/ Robertson/ Copra and Westcliff in the intervening period, further research shows these places to be shore based establishments.
His record shows service on LBV138 from March to October 1944 along with LBV 142 from 16 June 31 August, I'm assuming this ties in with D-Day but there is nothing to explain what he actually did.

An general explanation of his service would suffice as it looks like anything more specific would be hard to find.
Thanks in anticipation.

 

He did serve on sea going vessels - I would suggest you post the relevant pages if you need more info.

LBV 138 and LBV 142 were landing barge (vehicle)


15th LBV Flotilla - LBV. 138, 142, 148, 167, 177, 178, 190, 204, 205, 208, 216, 240.
In September 1944, 14th and 15th flotillas were taken over by the Army’s RASC

CITiZAN - Blogs - London’s Lightermen at D-DAY invasion of Normandy

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks Hugh, files attached

 

Stoker George Brown P/KX 602326 was a Hostilities Only rating being called up for the duration of the war.

HMS DUKE, Great Malvern - provided tented accommodation for New Entry Stokers.
HMS VICTORY was the Royal Navy Barracks in Portsmouth.
HMS MEDINA, Landing Craft Base, Ryde, Isle of Wight - it is here that he would have been trained on LBV craft by reservist Thames lightermen.
HMS ROBERTSON, Richborough, Kent - hutted accommodation encampment, landing craft base.
HMS COPRA, Largs – Combined Operations pay, records and accounts.
HMS WESTCLIFF, Southend - Combined Operations base.
HMS QUEBEC, Inveraray – Combined Operations training centre.
LBV 138 – Landing Barge Vehicle – type of landing craft.
LBV 142 – Landing Barge Vehicle – type of landing craft.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks for that Hugh but as I suspected, no real sea going activity, Atlantic or Russian convoys, nothing in the far east etc, it looks like he was just pottering about on barges getting ready for D-Day??

 

I wouldn't say that he was 'pottering about on barges getting ready for D-Day'. He was a member of Combined Ops, awarded the France & Germany Star and took part in the largest seaborne invasion in history.

Gold Beach

‘Z’ Landing Barge Squadron.
13 Landing Barge Flotilla. 8 X LBV.
14 Landing Barge Flotilla. 9 X LBV.
15 Landing Barge Flotilla. 12 X LBV.
4 Landing Barge Flotilla. 6 X LBV.

36 Landing Barge (S&R) Flotilla. 6 X LBE. 1 X LBK. 10 X LBO. 1 X LBW. Tugs ATHENIAN, MILFORD KING, RUGBY, YTHANBRAES.
38 Landing Barge (S&R) Flotilla. 6 X LBE. 1 X LBK. 10 X LBO. 2 X LBW. Tugs CONGRE, NEW COMET, VIDONIA.

Regards
Hugh

 

Posts 1-6 were in a separate thread and have been merged to the new thread started by CheezyPeas.

 

Wrong choice of words Hugh, my apologies, I think from the dates though he didn't take part in the action of 6th June, the dates for LBV142 activities don't commence till 16th June so I don't think he ever came under any enemy fire, unless of course he was part of the 15 Landing Barge Flotilla you have highlighted.
Any thoughts on why he wasn't demobbed till August 1946??

 

His papers show that Stoker Brown was on board LBV 138 on D Day.

Landing barges played an important role in Operation NEPTUNE, but are often, rather unfairly, ovelooked. In GOLD Assault Area the first ones were planned to arrive during the Second Tide on D Day. See Trux' posts starting here.

No photo of LBV 138 I'm afraid, but a couple of shots of some of her sisters in 15 LBV Flotilla.

LBV 208 during an exercise off the Isle of Wight, 24-28 April 1944 (IWM A23762):


LBV 148 & 204 filmed probably during the same exercise (ADM 671):



LBV 178 off GOLD (ADM 1275 with plenty other LBsV):


Not showing 15 LBV Flotilla and not in GOLD Area but nevertheless interesting is the IWM photo series "Men of the Landing Barges" shot by Lt Russell in Courseulles in July 1944.

Finally, former LBV commanders and crew members recall their wartime experience here:
Interview with Eric Simpson
Interview with Peter Douglas Bird
Interview with Dennis John Maxted
Interview with William Dennis Jarman

Michel

 

Hi,

First of all - A huge well done to Hugh MacLean for guiding you through the service records. No one on the forum is better than him at interpreting RN/MN service records.

I’ve no RN insights to offer but in relation to demobilisation I can say that men were demobilised in accordance with a set of criteria using year of birth and month of joining the armed services. After application of the criteria men were allocated an Age & Service Group number.

An August 1946 demob would be around A&S Group 29/30. He would’ve received over 2 months terminal leave so would’ve been “at home” from around May 1946.

Steve

 

He was released in Class A on 12.8.1946 from HMS QUEBEC - his A & S Group was 42.

As the end of the War in Europe approached, the Admiralty was faced with the problem of satisfying the demand by the Government, and the nation, for a rapid run-down of the armed services and the return of manpower to the urgent tasks of reconstruction while still carrying on a major naval war in the Far East. An additional requirement was that of ensuring the paying off and closing down of ships and establishments in an orderly, well organised way. The Government's plan was not for 'demobilisation', but a re-allocation of manpower between the Forces and industry.

There were huge numbers to be re-allocated and this all took time hence his date in 1946.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks for the clarification Hugh. I hadn’t looked at the matrix.

Steve

 

WOW!!!!!!........ In 9 hours from my initial posting this morning, I've got a lot better understanding of my grandfathers navy service, I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this, especially Hugh for his vast knowledge and Michel for the photo's and links, I cant wait to listen to the commanders and crew interviews, thanks again guys.

 

Question...................I've forwarded this stuff to an aunt in Australia, Georges daughter, this is as much a revelation to her as it is to me, she tells me the only thing he ever mentioned about his time in the navy was that he served on a minesweeper as a diver!!.....................BS do you think, bigging up his service??
As a Stoker, what would he have actually been doing whilst at HMS Quebec??