Fall of France/Dunkirk 1940 Related Statistics

Discussion in '1940' started by Drew5233, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    A letter to Ellis from Jolsen
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  4. L J

    L J Senior Member

    An other one,slightly different figures (from the National Archives Leaning Curve) but not dated:
    casualties suffered by the British Expeditionary Force May/June 1940

    Officers :Killed :333 Wounded 809 Missing :1830
    Other Ranks:Killed :3873 Wounded :16006 Missing :46129
    Detailed information is also given for RAC ,RA, RE,R.Sign.,Foot Guards,etc.....
     
  5. Peccavi

    Peccavi Senior Member

    Andy reference your posts

    Some more Royal Navy Stats



    40 Skoots (Dutch Schuits or Coasters) with 4 losses. 22,698 transported. Hondsrug transported the most-1,453

    But in an earlier post your say only one Dutch vessel was involved - can you explain.

    May I ask where the basic data came from?
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    99% sure it came from The Evacuation from Dunkirk: 'Operation Dynamo', 26 May-June 1940 (Whitehall History Publishing)

    The Evacuation from Dunkirk: 'Operation Dynamo', 26 May-June 1940 Whitehall History Publishing: Amazon.co.uk: The First Sea Lord, W.J.R. Gardner: Books

    I couldn't find the other post you mentioned. If I remember correctly the Skoots were classed as British craft (Dutch Skoots was used as a description rather than who manned them) as they were taken over and manned by Royal Naval personnel. I suspect Roy Martin would be the man to ask to confirm it.
     
  7. Centaur

    Centaur Junior Member

    Andy, I'm researching the evacuation of Dunkirk with particular regard to those evacuated from the beaches on the 3rd - 4th June. According to your stats these numbered 622. I need to break this down further, if possible, and identfy how many were wounded, which ships/boats picked them up and to which hospitals they would have been taken to. Do these records exist and could you be of any help locating them? Thanks, Andy, any assistence will be much appreciated.
     
  8. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  9. Peccavi

    Peccavi Senior Member

    Citing French sources - Dildy claims, during Dynamo:

    48,474 troops were carried in French Ships - of which 26,314 were transported direct to French Ports.

    Claims 46,792 French (and 6 British) were evacuated on 3rd and 4th June
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Andy, I'm researching the evacuation of Dunkirk with particular regard to those evacuated from the beaches on the 3rd - 4th June. According to your stats these numbered 622. I need to break this down further, if possible, and identfy how many were wounded, which ships/boats picked them up and to which hospitals they would have been taken to. Do these records exist and could you be of any help locating them? Thanks, Andy, any assistence will be much appreciated.

    Hi Jonne,

    I've just got your PM and think you will struggle to get such detailed infomation on Op Dynamo. I've not done much, if any, research into the evacuation and off the top of my head the best I think I may be able to offer you is what ships (names) evacuated what number of men on the 3rd and 4th June.

    Would this be any good for you?

    There are two other forum members that may be able to help you - Roy Martin and Dovermarine. There may be files on the stats you ar after at the National Archives or the National Maritime Museum but a needle and a haystack spring to mind.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  11. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Andy, are there any BEF casualty breakdowns by divisions and/or units? I had the damnedest time trying to find 1940 casualty figures for my book about the 50th Division. Only a few units recorded them in their histories, the war diaries weren't much help (understandably so given the chaos), and I am afraid that my final total for the division was no more than educated guesswork.
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Not that I'm aware of. I found something ish for 2 Div but that was all. I'm sure there must be something but I don't know where.
     
  13. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It's an interesting question. The main interest in losses would have been at battalion level (but of course they didn't include all the support services) but at some point after return to the UK, Divisional command needed to know what they had left to rebuild with.

    I imagine that if there is anything then it won't be in the May-June diaries but perhaps in HQ diaries for July - September as they set about reconstruction.
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    There are a fair few lists in the Battalion missing men file that list a significant number of men taken PoW and or Killed in Action.
     
  15. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    I looked at geoffs search engine for the 4th Green Howards and counted all the deaths between the dates they were in France , could doing this for all the units give you the total 50th div KIA ? bit tedious though.
    Craig
     
  16. Centaur

    Centaur Junior Member

    Thanks very much for this, Andy.

    Any and all help would be most appreciated as I don't underestimate the difficulty of the task. I'm prepared to follow even the most obscure leads if there is a possibility of finding the appropriate records. I will also follow up with messages to the two other forum memebers you mentioned. If anything else occurs to you, please let me know.

    Thanks, again.
     
  17. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I looked at geoffs search engine for the 4th Green Howards and counted all the deaths between the dates they were in France , could doing this for all the units give you the total 50th div KIA ? bit tedious though.
    Craig

    I didn't know there was such a search engine, do you have the link?

    Most of the casualty figures I found for 50th Div were in the regimental histories. Moses' Gateshead Gurkhas had a list of dead for 9th DLI, though sometimes it was hard to pin down if a man was killed, died of wounds much later, or died of non-battle causes. I had poor or no numbers for some of the units in 69th and 150th Brigades, figures for just two artillery units, and nothing for RASC, RAMC, etc. My final estimate was approximately 2,800 for the whole division, including the 25th and 69th Brigades (the latter came under command of the 50th during the campaign). That 2,800 may have been on the conservative side, and more work obviously needs to be done.
     
  18. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Evacuation Figures from CAB 106/270
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  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

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