Div sign ID

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by KevinT, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    This is a slightly blurry photo of my late father Maurice "Tommy" Tucker.
    It is one of the few photos he wrote any dates on.

    On the reverse it says "Taken in Tampin. Malaya, March 1952.


    Can anyone ID the Div sign on his arm? The only thing I could find near it was 40th Infantry Division but the Cockerel is facing the other way.

    Cheers
    Kevin
     

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  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 Members Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Some Div's had them facing opposite (reversed) ways for each arm.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  4. Lachlan

    Lachlan Junior Member

    I remember a book I had many years ago "The Argylls In Korea" had a photo of Sgt Major Paddy Boyd of the 1st Argylls, in his olive green summer combat uniform (shirtsleeves order), having a laugh with a wee Korean kid whose admiring his wrist-strap with Sgt Major's badge on it. Very clearly you can see the cockerel formation patch on his upper sleeves, just like the photos above. I think the Argylls arrived at Pusan from Hong Kong on HMS Ceylon wearing the insignia, which was the 40th Div, but later adopted the triangular insignia with the three "9's" of the 27th Commonwealth Brigade.
     
  5. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    40 Inf Div was stationed in Hong Kong, but 26 Gurkha Brigade was sent from 40 Div to Malaya and probably wore the 40 Div sign at least until they got round to changing it. In addition, personnel from Hong Kong would attend courses in Singapore and Malaya which could account for that pic.

    Chris
     
  6. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    40 Inf Div was stationed in Hong Kong, but 26 Gurkha Brigade was sent from 40 Div to Malaya and probably wore the 40 Div sign at least until they got round to changing it. In addition, personnel from Hong Kong would attend courses in Singapore and Malaya which could account for that pic.

    Chris

    Chris,

    My father was with 25 Field Regiment when he was sent to Malaya. Initially they were used as Infantry until their CO found out.
    I don't think 12 months in the jungle, fighting along with the Gurkha's was hardly a course.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Yes. part of 25 Fd Regt from 40 Div in Hong Kong replaced 26 Fd Regt (48 Gurkha Bde) in April 1951. Who knows what sign they would have worn for how long! Just after my father's regiment went there, though into 18 Inf Bde.

    They'd obviously got their guns back before your third pic!

    Chris
     
  8. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Yes. part of 25 Fd Regt from 40 Div in Hong Kong replaced 26 Fd Regt (48 Gurkha Bde) in April 1951. Who knows what sign they would have worn for how long! Just after my father's regiment went there, though into 18 Inf Bde.

    They'd obviously got their guns back before your third pic!

    Chris

    Hello Chris,

    On the back of the third photo it says:-
    B1 Gun Crew Taken on the Spring Manouvres 1953

    A couple more photos.

    Yes that is who you think it is presenting thestaff to my father when he was in the Army Apprentice School.

    The Gurkha and the motorcycle photos were taken in Hong Kong. The Battery photo I am not sure of it could be Malaya or Hong Kong. But they still have the 40th Infantry Division Cockerel on their sleeve.
     

    Attached Files:

    sol likes this.
  9. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels Patron

  10. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Charley,

    Today over a my Mums house I found some of my late father's papers including his Regular Army Certificate of Service. In the back is the list of dates and countries and when he was posted there.
    Now I can confirm his period of service in Malaya.

    Farelf/Hong Kong 31/7/50 - 26/7/51
    Malaya 27/7/51 - 18/6/52
    Hong Kong 19/6/52 - 9/8/53

    Also while in Malta 2/6/55 - 17/4/57 he spent just over a month in Tripoli 17/11/56 - 27/12/56. This seems odd, why would he have gone there for 6 weeks?

    Cheers

    Kevin
     
  11. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels Patron

    Kevin,

    Good to hear from you. The dates you've found are revealing. I've just checked the information we managed to dig up last time and I find I wrote the following:

    Combining those earlier sources, if you were to check them (and assuming they are accurate), you should be able to deduce which battery your father was with: the regiment comprised 35, 54 and 93 Fld Btys. 54 Bty went to Malaya first at the end of Sept '50 and then were replaced in July '51 by 93 Bty. If your father has a date for transfer to Malaya other than those two, he'll almost certainly be a member of 35 Bty.

    Which means that if he was indeed with 35-bty (you have him in a photo with their swimming team), he had transfered to 93-bty before July '51 when that battery replaced 54-bty as infantillery with the Gurkhas.

    Perhaps you've worked this out already and I'm prattling away for no reason!

    Finally, although my grandfather was with 54-bty in Hong Kong/Malaya, he did a short stint on Cyprus with an HQ unit - basically guard duty and driving. Pure speculation, but perhaps something similar explains your father's short stay in Tripoli.

    I know I mentioned getting onto the Royal Artillery people for more details, but I haven't done a thing in that direction. Apologies, it's still on the list - i got lost in 1944.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  12. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels Patron

  13. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels Patron

    For the record--and the benefit of other researchers--the following files that pertain to 25 Field Regt's time in Hong Kong and Malaya are are available from the National Archives:

    Reference: WO 305/57
    Description: 25 Field Regiment
    Date: 1950 Apr - 1956 Apr
    [108 Pages]

    Extracted from this master file are two appendices for 54 (Maharjapore) bty and 93 (Le Cateau) bty's successive times in Malaya when they were detached from the regiment. 54-bty arrived in Malaya on 1 Oct 1950 and departed 27 July 1951. 93-bty replaced them, arriving on 1 Aug 51. 93-bty was due to be replaced in turn by 35-bty, but the rotation was canceled owing to a shortage of NCOs and 93-bty's operational commitments in Malaya.

    Reference: WO 305/98
    Description: 54 (Maharajpore) Field Battery
    Date: 1950 Oct - 1951 July
    [4 Pages]

    Reference: WO 305/107
    Description: 93 Field Battery
    Date: 1951 Aug - 1954 Mar
    [Length Unknown]

    There is a lot of useful information about 93-bty's later time ('55-'57) in Malaya here:

    25th Field Regiment in Malaya

    When 54-bty arrived in Malaya they were attached to 26 Field Regt (16, 17 & 159-Btys) who had been in the theatre for some years. The diary for the period of attachment is this:

    Reference: WO 305/58
    Description: 26 Field Regiment
    Date: 1950 Apr - 1952 Apr
    [Length Unknown]

    The following two files may also contain further relevant material on the situation in Hong Kong, but I have yet to view them:

    Reference:
    WO 268/290
    Description:
    40 Infantry Division H.Q. R.A.
    Date: 1949 July-Dec.

    Reference:
    WO 268/291
    Description:
    40 Infantry Division H.Q. R.A.
    Date: 1950 Jan.-Mar.

    Also, an interesting academic thesis is available here:
    An Operational Analysis of the Emergency in Malaya 1948-54
    by Henry John Coates

    https://www.google.co.kr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwip7b_NvvzTAhUROrwKHQopDiA4ChAWCCQwAA&url=https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/111073/2/b12926139_Coates_Henry_John.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGffy01jS2Wu2sxc5oWUfVzYuHL6A&sig2=lEs1TqNONjVxl1M4tEsslg

    Speech from Templer near the start--he sounds pretty tough.

     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  14. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels Patron

  15. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels Patron

  16. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels Patron

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