Desert Rats to be left tankless

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by RemeDesertRat, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Clearly, reports of the death of the 'tank' are premature because if the threat from precision weapons, drones, or whatever was believed to be that serious, we wouldn't be proposing to put lots of infantry in tank-like targets. We're back to arguing over the function and form of the 'tank', not its right to exist.

    The new formation brings to mind the c1942 mixed div: 3x inf bdes (mostly armoured infantry) plus 1x 'tank' bde with enough supporting arms/services to allow balanced bde groups. Seems a sensible mix as a starting point.

    Tradition aside, I can't help feeling that once you've got infantry crewing fighting vehicles you might as well make the the FS/AT 'tank' variant organic to the infantry (dragoons in the original sense?) and essentially solve the cooperation conundrum for all time. It won't make it any easier to define or do but at least a single arm would own the problem. Keep the 'cavalry' for recce/escort roles.

    It does beg the question: what are 'protected infantry'?
  2. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    what are 'protected infantry'?

    Ones that aren't liable to be paid off? :(
  3. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    The theory of armoured infantry as we knew it in the 1970s was something we witnessed with American and German armies. We were using a technique of assaulting a position by dismounting from AFV432 (mechanized infantry) maybe two hundred metres to the front and flanks the frontage to put down fire whilst the flanks did flanking attacks. We did not have vehicle mounted guns (later we had a 7.62mm L37) the theory with armoured infantry with a 30/40mm gun was to use suppressing fire right onto and dismount on or near the objective thereby lessening exposure time to small arms fire. Once an objective has been taken we fight through the position and get off it to a holding area with all round defence, again the vehicle weapons are used in this. This is done as any enemy worth his salt will once he realizes the position is taken hit it with artillery or mortars again the vehicles are useful here. We can all come up with scenarios where other systems would be more useful. The government are going to make the cuts whatever anyone wishes to the contrary. They see it as reducing the big ticket equipment on the battlefield, the next phase will surely be the question as to why we need so many home defence fighters in the RAF. They are not alone in asking that - been rumblings around Whitehall for years along with taking helicopters under army command. There are many countries around the world and within Europe who do not involve themselves in conflicts, we now have politicians who are asking why we do so readily. You and I can disagree with that -many have said enough of sending field armies to places they see no logical reason for. I suspect the politicians are going to make damned sure it does not happen again! Maybe we will assist in the Mugabe type areas of the world as an independent 'policeman' with larger conflicts we may offer to do that which the government of the day has equipped our forces to do.
  4. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Protected infantry are mounted in Mastiffs et al. That ilk of wheeled transport.
  5. mapshooter

    mapshooter Senior Member

    The army has been operating with bdes having a single armoured regt for 20 years or so now. Nothing dramatic has changed, apart from the new bdes being standardised with five close cbt units organised the same in all three bdes.

    "Exactly - armoured infantry brigades. Tom and I were taking about the Army's present "armoured" regiments - the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, the Royal Dragoon Guards, the Queen's Royal Hussars, the Kings' Royal Hussars and the 2nd RTR. "

    Do you need my short lecture on the difference between a bde and a regt? You seem to be a tad confused.
  6. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    No thanks. I'm not confused - last time I looked...

    Tom and I were taking about the Army's present "armoured" regiments - the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, the Royal Dragoon Guards, the Queen's Royal Hussars, the Kings' Royal Hussars and the 2nd RTR. "

    ...what *I* was talking about to Tom was armoured regiments. Our conversation didn't have anything to do with armoured infantry units.
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Nether am I as I think it odd that while we appear to only have FIVE Armoured (fighting)
    regiments equipped shortly without Challengers except ONE regiment - we have SIX
    regiments acting as recce - and 1st RTR as a Demo and training unit - whilst in ww2
    we had just ONE recce unit per division - the ratio to-day appears to be top heavy with lookers - not fighters.

    Bit hard to swallow as my main experience in Tank warfare was as support of my Bde of three regiments of Churchill Tanks with the three regiments of the 2nd Bde of the 1st
    Canadian Infantry Division

    The new look of the Infantry Bdes - appears to be an extension of the old WW2 Battle groups - or Huntforce of North Africa....Lustedforce of Northern Italy et al

  8. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Like a game of chess where check mate has been declared - we play on.
  9. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Just an aside, really...

    But I can't help thinking too how pathetic the "Review Of The Fleet" will look like at the next Coronation! :(
  10. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Hyde Park Flotilla ?


    Come in No 48 your time is up! Admiral of the Blue.
  11. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

  12. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    I see Len Burritt, 96, first to wear the red Jerboa was at the ceremony.
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The link doesn't work. Proud to say I served with 207 Armoured Brigade Signal Squadron back in 2003.
  14. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Link fixed (fingers crossed)
  15. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member


    The following units of 23rd Armoured Brigade Group were sent to Greece in October 1944 as part of a small liberation and stabilisation force.

    40th RTR Converted to Infantry Role
    46th RTR 1 Troop Shermans, 1 Troop Armd Cars, rest converted to Infantry Role
    50th RTR Converted to Infantry
    11th KRRC Trained the rest of the Brigade in Infantry role.
    64th LAA Regt Converted to Infantry Role
    66th LAA Regt Converted to General Transport Role
    463/104 Bty, RHA 8 x 25 pounders, rest converted to Infantry Role

    The tanks were quickly brought back when civil war broke, but just shows that the dismounting of Armoured Brigades is not a new phenomenon,

    One thing my service career taught me is, things never stand still, and never to get over sentimental about things. Every single unit I was stationed at in 22 years, bar one, has closed.

    However, my memories of those I was proud to serve with will stay with me forever.

    And forums like this one will ensure that they will never be forgotten.

  16. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Tucked quietly out of the way behind his OBE is a Military Cross. That is very James Woodham - quietly understated and humble.


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