Changing of the Guard - Buckingham Palace, during the war

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by Slipdigit, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Did the ceremonial aspects of the Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace continue throughout the war?
     
  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Jeff

    I wouldn't think for a moment that there was ever a time when Buck Pal was not being guarded and therefore automatically there would have been a "changing of the guard"

    I did note however that you spoke of the ceremonial aspect of the ceremony and I am fairly sure this would have been stopped during WW2 because of restrictions against crowds assembling in public places.

    I do remember the the Home Guard were once given the "honour" of mounting guard at the palace and I also seem to remember that this "honour" has been given to various military units over the years quite separate to WW2 times.

    Finally, as I was absent from Britain from April 1943 until late '45 I cannot speak with first hand knowledge and I leave it to others (and GOOGLE) to provide the definitive answer.

    Ron
     
  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Jeff, I have seen clippings about mounting of the guard, but as for the 'ceremonial' aspects, I don't believe tunics and bearskins were worn.

    I also remember reading that a Canadian unit were given honour of taking part at some stage during the war. There was a good deal of coverage about it in The Times, but can't remember the date.
     
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Dbf -The Canadians did the guard at Buck house AFTER the war for some reason I have forgotten - but they had to send for a Guards RSM to teach them the ropes- how to march in step etc - just kidding Randy - Canuck - Phil et al !
    Cheers
     
  5. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    My Grandfather (again) was guarding the gates of the palace, indeed no tunics or buckskins were worn. Funnily enough, what is left of no.2 coldstream (7 coy) is one of the units that still does the guarding.

    The changing of the guard is simply a march from Wellington barracks to the palace whilst the unit relieved marches back. Although I seem to recall my grandfather saying that even this was removed during the war years.

    There's no fuss beyond the handover, so no bands, more sandbags, a lot more drab colors. And if you try and have your photograph taken with them, you'd get shot.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    My Great-Aunt told me my Nan went up to London in 1917 to see their brother who was in the Grenadiers, he was performing public duties before being sent to France & Flanders.
    She did say he winked at her when he saw her.
    Nice story not sure if really true.
    He was killed in 1918.
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    R.A.F. mount guard for first time at Buckingham Palace.

    The Times, Wednesday, Mar 24, 1943
     

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  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Toronto Scottish & Royal 22nd Reg. mount guard at Buckingham Palace & St. James' Palace

    The Times, Friday, Apr 05, 1940

    The Times, Wednesday, Apr 17, 1940 - article and photo same date
     

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  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    My Grandfather (again) was guarding the gates of the palace, indeed no tunics or buckskins were worn.

    Wasn't that the Canadians at Bearingham Palace?
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Extract from The Grenadier Guards In The War Of 1939-1945 vol Two Nicholson page 527.

    The Holding Battalion
    In April 1940 . the bulk of the Kempton Park detachment was moved to Wellington Barracks in London to form the Holding Battalion. In the early years the Battalion had three main functions. The first was to form a secondary pool of reinforcements ; the second to mount King's Guard and other public duties in rotation with other battalions of the Brigade; and the third was to provide guards for the inner defences of London, at Whitehall, Downing Street , the War Office and Westminster.

    Later in the war it was found these duties unsuitable for recruits so the Holding Battalion was filled with older soldiers , men from disbanded battalions & those recovering from wounds or illness.
    In November 1943 the Holding Battalion was disbanded and it's place taken by the Westminster Garrison Battalion formed from the 3 senior Guards regiments.
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    1st County of London (Westminster) Battalion of Home Guard

    The Times, Saturday, May 15, 1943
     

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  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    The Coldstream Guards 1920-46, Howard & Sparrow;
    Holding Battalion, page 18
    The threat of invasion receding, life became a round of working parties and guards. The Battalion found Public Duties regularly throughout the War, for a tour of forty-eight hours every six days. Very many hundreds of guardsmen and young officers must remember hours spent on the square at Regent's Park while R.S.M. Brittain, succeeded in 1941 by R.S.M. Yardley, instructed them in the mysteries of mounting and dismounting guard. For four years the battalion maintained the standards of the Regiment on King's Guard and in marching, with the drums, to and from Wellington Barracks, from which the mounting and dismounting took place.

    Page 20
    Towards the end of 1943 there was such a shortage of men that it was necessary to combine the Holding Battalion of the Grenadiers, the Coldstream, and the Scots Guards into one battalion, ... and, later a mixed company of Irish and Welsh Guards .... The battalion was called the Westminster Garrison Battalion and was stationed in Wellington Barracks.
     
  13. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Give y'all a good bone and you chew it clean.

    Yes, Ron, it was the public marching in and back that I was asking about as it rightfully seemed an invitation for needless casualties, especially earlier in the war.

    Any idea when the guard returned to prewar activities and was the occasion noted formally?
     
  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Here are some refs to the Brigade of Guards wearing full dress uniform again. The Household Cavalry had been wearing theirs, I think, from the time of the Royal Wedding (Princess Elizabeth & Philip Mountbatten)

    It seems that although uniforms were issued for 1948 Trooping of the colour, (47 being in khaki dress) the Troop was cancelled due to rain. Amongst reasons cited was that the blanco would run and ruin the tunics.

    It was also noted that when the pre-war ceremonial uniforms were being fitted on the guards, that their waist lines were substantially slimmer than their pre-war comrades.
     

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  15. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Thanks all.

    To summarize my understanding:

    The guard change continued throughout the war, but in a much abbreviated form, with the guards marching from the barracks in battle dress, accompanied by drums only.

    By 1940, selectees from other nations and units were brought in as an honor guard for a specific time frame, in recognition of their service to the crown in the war.

    It was not until 1949 that the guard began to wear the traditional dress uniform again.
     
  16. Rotherfield

    Rotherfield Senior Member

    Hi all
    Not only was Buck House the scene of changing the guard during the war but dont forget that the ceremony of the keys at the Tower of London also took place even during air raids and the blitz,
    Rotherfield
     
  17. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    One cutting for you then Mike ...
     

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  18. Noel Burgess

    Noel Burgess Senior Member

    I recall my mother telling me that an appeal was made for old dress uniforms for the wedding of Princess Elizabeth & the Duke of Edinburgh because pre-war stocks were low.
    Noel
     
  19. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    The way things are going in this country at the moment, I fully expect to see a similar appeal in the near future !
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Tolbooth and dbf like this.

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