Hello all, may i just say what a superb forum this is. Such is the knowledge and experience here that I have already furthered my research just by trawling the forums. Well my first post is this - according to service records my grandfather did most of his service with the Royal engineers in '4 HQ, 21 army group, XXX corps'. My question is 'what was 4 HQ ?' I've researched 30 corps orbat and found vague references to 4 GHQ troops RE but nothing more precise. I found no mention of 4 HQ. The RE museum could not shed any light on the matter either. He was a plant operator so I accept that he was probably part of a strategic reserve to be used throughout the corps/army group wherever needed , but i find it odd that there is no mention anywhere of what '4 HQ' relates to! I believe the closest i have come is actually via this site where i established that the RE divided the 21 AG area of ops into 'lines of communication sub areas' one of which is designated '4 HQ', but that's me guessing! Can anyone please help at all? Many thanks Mac
Mac As many here will know, my stock answer is to quote the "Trux" website HOME. On this occasion it only gives a partial answer: 4 GHQ Troops Engineers is listed as one of the units not allocated to a Division or Corps [aqthough it could have been placed at the disposal of XXX Corps for part or all of the campaign, it was not part of the Corps Engineers organisation]. There is not an Organisation table for GHQ Troops Engineers but it would probably comprise an HQ unit, 3 Field Companies and one Field Park Company. It does specify that a Field Park Coy. serving with GHQ, Army or Corps Troops Engineers will have the following Mechanical Equipment: - 3 Caterpillar D4 Angledozers 1 Caterpillar D4 Tractor with Grader 1 Caterpillar Auto Patroll Grader No 4 Line of Communications Sub Area was formed in February 1945 at Kaldow Airfield, Bablesburg [I think thats Belgium or maybe Holland] and I dont think this is the right avenue of investigation - but I have been proved wrong on many occasions. Noel
Mac, Hello and welcome to the forum. I think that you will find that they were specialsts in heavy equipment jobs and therefore only used when needed or requested. I have a friend who served in 104 Army Troop Royal Engineers and very little is written on their work ( Again Heavy Plant and demolition work) Regards Tom
My father was sent from the 56 me sec end of march 1945 (@ Louvenjoul) formation Lof C CRE 4HQ MEU, 879 me coy via 3 HQ ME Units to the 50 me pltn (@ Venray),.. 866 me coy ..which on the 16th of June 1945 came u/c 30 corps. I have the relevant diaries , 56 sec work included hard standings for 6 and 7 ESBD at Brussels,the Bayeaux and Caen by-passes u/c 2nd Battalion Canadian Engineers, demolitions, and, timber haulage for CE Canadian works Brussels area and La Hulpe (oct 44) The 50 platoon seem to be more or less crane drivers and operators working at Goch, Bergensteinfurt and various other locations, and I think they were part of 866 me coy? My father said he was at Belsen as a bulldozer driver, no mention in the 50 me pltn war diary of any activities in Belsen?!!!
Hello Tal, sorry for not replying earlier but for some reason i had not followed this topic and did not receive a notification??? I am now ! That's very interesting info you have supplied as a few bits do match what my Grandfather passed on over the years. We know he was at Goch and worked a lot with the Canadians. The Belsen connection is also interesting as he also said that he was there, using their bulldozers to help clear the site. There is a quite famous, but terrible, photo of a dozer driver clearing bodies at Belsen with a handkerchief around his face. My Granddad said that this was a member of his unit however i have also found no reference anywhere to this activity. Your information is quite specific, is that from service records ? Thanks again, Mac.
hI Mac..i have the diaries for 56 me pln, and 879 me coy aug-dec 1944 and 50 me pln and 866 me coy march-may 1945...and just trying to sort my fathers path in ww2, finding it very hard to find anything presice on the web in relation to these...even less for the one week period 23-29 march 1945 my father was posted to CRE No3 MEU... but there again, I am just a novice!!!
Tal, thanks for the war diaries that you posted, they were very interesting. The mention of 23 crane operators coming across from 4 HQ was interesting. My grandad was a crane operator so could have been one of those. I know he was at Goch and Venlo which are locations in the diaries so there is a good chance that he was transferred across. I'll cross check his service records when i can with your diaries to see if i can pinpoint any further. The mention of 868 ME coy was good as that was one of my grandads units, although i think he was with them a bit later. The mention of Belsen was also interesting. If i can help with your research or deciphering anything then let me know. Mac.
Hi Mac, if it's any help, platoon numbers 27, 56, 77 and 78 were part of 879 me coy, as was No 9 at one point...maybe some one else can tell us which other company or companies the rest are from i.e No's 61, 65, 66, 68 and 69...
Here's a DISTRIBUTION LIST which was inserted in 879 ME COY RE war diary inbetween Oct and Nov entries...don't know if it helps , some are illegible, to my eyes anyhow!!
In Feb '45 my father was in Antwerp, with the 4th LOC Army Troops. A later entry in his personal diary shows them near Kladow airfield, Bablesburg, near Berlin/Potsdam. They had got there very early July to set up two enormous generators ( 3. 3/4 tons each ) for the Potsdam conference. They were barack'd in the UFA film studios. Only just spotted this much earlier post, hope it's of interest to someone.
My apologies, memory error, just checked and he was in 4th LOC until 20th Dec '44, at Kladow airfield he was part of 552 Army Troops Co RE. ie, Feb'45 already with 552.
552 Army Troops Company 14 Jun 45 – GHQ Troops – British Troops Berlin – 188 CRE Works 17 Jun 45 – 159 CRE Works 19 Jul 45 – 188 CRE Works 26 Sep 45 Hansastraße Herford – Braunschweig 17 Jun 45 – Filmpark 'Elstree' Potsdam-Babelsberg 9 Jul 45 – AGFA Buildings, Hindenburgstraße, Wilmersdorf 26 Sep 45 Prior to 14 Jun 45 the company were in Antwerp Belgium and under command 4 L of C Sub Area for Berlin and appear on their order of battle 4 Line of Communication Sub Area Hope this helps 21st Army Group later British Army of the Rhine (under construction)
Have the following recorded: CRE 4 HQ Mechanical Equipment Units – GHQ Troops – 30 Corps District 15 Jul 46 – 1 Corps District 1 Oct 46 – 5 Infantry Division 1 Jul 47 – Hannover District 15 Jan 48 – redesignated CRE 4 HQ Plant Units 1 Feb 47 – disbanded 31 Dec 48 Meise-B north of Brussels – Fliederstraße 15, Bad Salzuflen 23 Jul 45 – Herderstraße 1, Hannover-Kleefeld 3 Mar 46 There was also CRE HQ Electrical & Mechanical Units no number 4 only found number 9 CRE = Commander Royal Engineers and CE = Chief Engineer https://britisharmyingermany.com (under construction)
Thanks for the above Steve, strings a few facts from his diary very nicely, the Mention of Herford is interesting, he writes that " they got here on Saturday morning " , staying in a farm yard. He loked thetown but not the billets ! Good luck with the research, it's amazing what turns up on here. Kind regards
Thanks very much for that info Steve very interesting and appreciated. I had a quick look at the website which is impressive. The detail on there is amazing and I've already found another unit my Grandad served with on there. The locations are what I was really looking for all along so thanks again.
While it doesn’t address the original question, the assembly position of 4GHQ RE can be seen in the attached map image, which, comes from the excellent guide to the battle for the Rhine in March 1945, Operation Plunder.
