2nd & 6th Green Howards

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by Graham6512, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. Graham6512

    Graham6512 Member

    I'm interested in two Green Howards soldiers who were in different battalions. Richard Henry rose 18.5.43. Of the 2nd battalion and Norman Rose 15.11.1944. Any help to point me in the right places to look would be gratefully received
     
  2. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Best place to start is the MOD https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/overview if you're not next of kin or acting with NOK permission then it will cost you £30 per application but you will most likely get a fair few documents detailing dates and places of service and so on. A lot of the information is in military jargon but the records I had came with a big thick list of abbreviation to help you figure some of it out. There is also a good thread on the forum which will help decipher some of it. If you're still stuck after that then ask!

    Another good place to try is the regimental museum http://greenhowards.org.uk/ you can either visit in person (I would contact them first and set up a visit) or you can use the info you get from the MOD or elsewhere to make a research enquiry. Just had a quick look at the site and they charge £30 for doing a search for you.

    Commonwealth War Graves Commission will give you some more info - here is the page for Richard Henry Rose http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2523770/ROSE,%20RICHARD%20HENRY

    And here is Norman Rose http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2646805/ROSE,%20NORMAN

    That should be enough to get you started off. After that you'll probably want to start to dig deeper...

    Good luck and good hunting!
     
  3. Graham6512

    Graham6512 Member

    Could I ask how do I find out more about my great uncles Norman Rose 6th Battalion all I know is his service number 4697634 and the date of his death 15.11.44 and Richard Henry Rose 2nd Battalion Green Howards 4397926. He has no known grave that's all I know. Any help however small would be greatly appreciated
     
  4. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    As he says, the service records will give you the starting points for a number of different strands of research:-

    a] Training camps/courses
    b] Geographical locations
    c] Transportation
    d] Units & formations
    e] Awards

    And potentially a lot more.

    Once you have that information, the battalion war diaries will provide more detailed information. For the 2 Green Howards, for instance, there are diaries - grouped annually:

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C945229
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C946883
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C949256
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C952007
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C954553

    This user will be able to help you to access them at a competitive cost:
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/user/6786-drew5233/
     
  5. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I've posted the 6th Battalions war diary pages for the 15th November 1944 on the other thread you posted on.
     
  7. Graham6512

    Graham6512 Member

    Thank so much. It's doing my head in. None of the other brothers would talk about Normans death even though they said his brother John was with him.
    Richards death has raised all sorts of things, children he couldn't have been the father of as he was away in the Burma jungles
     
  8. Graham6512

    Graham6512 Member

    Thank you all. This all started years ago in one of my great uncles houses. I asked him 'how did your brother Norman die in Holland' He clamed up and wouldn't tell me. He said 'ask great uncle Bill'. Obviously what ever happened was a touchy subject. All I ever did find out was Norman and his brother John 6th battalion Green Howards were crossing a bridge and Norman was wounded/killed on 15 Nov 44 and John was ok. I have the cwgc photos of his grave and some family photos but as I live Up North in Middlesbrough I've never had the chance to get south to go to look up his records. Redundancy looms for me so lots of time to drive down and find out. Thank you all again.
     
  9. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is a summary of the service of the 2nd Battalion, Green Howards:

    2nd Battalion, The Green Howards (Alexandra, Princess of Wales’s Own Yorkshire Regiment)

    Ferozepore Brigade Area – 3 September 1939 to October 1941
    The battalion was located in Ferozepore under the Ferozepore Brigade Area until October 1941.

    Jubbulpore Brigade Area – November 1941 to October 1942
    In October 1941 it moved to Jubbulpore for one year on internal security duties.

    Razmak Brigade – October 1942 to 20 December 1943
    The battalion served under the brigade at Razmak. It was mobilized on December 1st, 1942.

    Peshawar Brigade – 20 December 1943 to 3 May 1944
    The 2nd Green Howards served at Peshawar.

    116th Indian Infantry Brigade – 3 May 1944 to 17 September 1944
    It served under the brigade in Ranchi then moved to Lohardaya in July 1944. The battalion left for the Arakan on September 17th, 1944.

    4th Indian Infantry Brigade – 22 September 1944 to 17 April 1945
    It then came under 4th Indian Infantry Brigade at Bawli Bazaar in the Arakan on September 22nd, 1944.

    4th (West African) Infantry Brigade – Attached – 17 April 1945 to 12 July 1945
    It operated under the brigade in the Arakan. It left Ramree Island in the Arakan on June 28th for Madras, leaving the brigade on July 12th.

    Meerut District – Central Command – 27 July 1945 to 31 August 1945
    It arrived in Meerut on July 27th, where it was located for the remainder of the war.
     
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  10. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is a summary of the service of the 6th Battalion, Green Howards:

    6th Battalion, The Green Howards (Alexandra, Princess of Wales’s Own Yorkshire Regiment) (T.A.)

    69th Infantry Brigade – 11 September 1939 to 31 August 1945
    The battalion was raised from the 4th Battalion at Middlesbrough and had its first officer commissioned on May 25th, 1939. The 6th Green Howards were initially to share the 4th Green Howards’ HQ in Middlesborough while it established itself. In the June 1939, the 6th Green Howards was established and had its companies co-located with their counterparts in the 4th Battalion. ‘A’ Company at Richmond and Thirsk, ‘B’ Company at Guisborough, ‘C’ Company at Skelton and ‘D’ Company at Yarm, Northallerton and Stokesley. HQ Company would be located in Redcar and Skelton. The brigade and battalion were administered and embodied under the 50th Infantry Division from September 3rd, to October 2nd, 1939. After call-up the battalion served on guard duties at Middlesbrough, Redcar, Stockton and Hartlepool. In April 1940, it left Stockton railway station for Dover, embarking on April 24th, 1940. It landed at Calais on the 25th and moved to Irles, France to work on the RAF landing grounds. It moved to Sauchy Cauchy on May 17th, 1940 to prepare defences there. The battalion was moved to Canal du Nord and withdrew the next day to Saudimont. It was in positions on May 20th, on the River Scarpe at Roveux. After that it withdrew to Farbus and by nightfall was located at Vimy Ridge. The next day it moved to Gandecourt. The 23rd Division was now placed under the command of GHQ BEF and the battalion moved to Gravelines for defence for two days. After it withdrew to Dunkirk and to the coast there at Bray Dunes on May 29th.
    It embarked at Dunkirk on May 30th and returned to Folkstone on June 1st. It was sent to a camp near Cardiff to reform for the next two weeks. It moved to Launceston, Cornwall in June and then in early July to Hinton Admiral near Bournemouth with companies deployed on beach defence. It moved to Frome, Somerset in November to train.
    It was warned for overseas service in June 1941 and embarked early that month. It arrived by sea in Egypt on July 20th, 1941. It stayed in Egypt until August 5th, 1941 when it was sent to Famagusta, Cyprus as to garrison duties and to training until November 4th, 1941. It was located at Limassol on Cyprus. It left Cyprus for Palestine at Acre and then moved at once to Iraq, where it remained as a garrison and worked on defences until January 18th, 1942. It was then located in Syria until February 10th, 1942 on defence work. It moved by road from Syria, to Alexandria and then to the Tobruk area in Libya on February 19th. It served in Libya until June 14th, 1942 when it withdrew to Egypt. The battalion fought in the defence of Egypt and at El Alamein. It returned to Libya on December 13th, 1942 as part of the advance to Tunisia. It passed out of Libya on March 8th, 1943 and moved into North Africa. It went into action at Wadi Akarit on April 6th, 1943 and served until April 23rd, when it was withdrawn to a camp near Sfax. It left for Egypt on April 25th and arrived at Sidi Bishr Camp near Alexandria on May 6th. Five weeks later it moved to a camp on the Suez Canal and remained there until it embarked at Suez on July 7th.
    The battalion landed in Sicily on July 10th, 1943. It served in the Sicilian campaign at Syracuse and the Primsole Bridge. The campaign was over on August 7th and the battalion went to Taormina to rest. It embarked at Augusta on October 17th, 1943 and arrived at Liverpool on November 5th, 1943.
    Upon arrival, it moved to Riddleworth Camp, near Thetford, East Anglia. It moved to Southwold, Suffolk in January 1944 and soon after to Inverary, Scotland to train for amphibious operations. It returned after training to Bascombe, Hampshire. It then moved to Studland Bay until early 1944 and then to Bushfield Camp, near Winchester. Afterwards, it moved an area near Romney during the second week of May 1944. It left to embark on June 1st, 1944 and embarked on June 3rd, 1944.
    It landed at Normandy on June 6th, 1944 and served with the brigade in Northwest Europe until December 13th, 1944. It then returned to the United Kingdom at Malton, Yorkshire on December 14th, 1944 and remained there until the end of the war.
     
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  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Did you see the diary pages I posted. I tried to cut and paste the link onto this thread but the PC (work's) won't let me.
     
  12. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

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  13. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

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  15. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    *
    Welcome to the forum, Graham6512.

    Your great uncle Norman Rose's army service number is not from the Green Howards block of numbers, it is from The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry block; being 4680001 to 4736000. This actually fits with him having a Leeds address on his CWGC Certificate. This also means that he had service with the former regiment (maybe even just his basic training) and sometime later was transferred to the 6th Bn Green Howards. But was it his only transfer?

    In order to track his service, you really need those service records: post no. 2 refers.

    He is also the only man in the 69th Infantry Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division (5th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment, and 6th & 7th Bns Green Howards) to lose his life that day. The 6th Bn War Diary (posted on the other thread by Andy) reveals that they were static that day apart from patrols. I do know that the 5th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment was pulled out of the line on The Island for rest in Nijmegen on the 15 November 1944 and would have crossed the Nijmegen Bridge, but not sure how this move would have involved him.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  16. andrew dixon

    andrew dixon New Member

    my grandfather transferred from the south staffs to the 6th battalion on the 15/06/44,
    i have a couple of photos that were developed in Njimagen (they are stamped on the reverse)
     
  17. gaj306

    gaj306 Junior Member

    After ill health family issues etc I have finally got back into this. Last week I visited the Green Howards museum in Richmond. And thanks to the staff there found out a few things that were very helpful.
    Steve thank you for the info. I have information from the regimental museum that Norman was transferred to the Green Howards from the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry on September 3rd 1944 approximately 12 weeks before he died.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  18. gaj306

    gaj306 Junior Member

    Thank you for your information I visited the regimental museum last week and they confirmed your information. Richard almost certainly died in India and not in Burma.
     
  19. Gary Daniels

    Gary Daniels New Member

    Please respond to my email as norman rose was my grandad

    Gary Daniels
     
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