23rd Hussars. Anybody Assist with a location or war diary please?

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Gunner400, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Gunner400

    Gunner400 Active Member

    A good friend have just given me his fathers WW2 medals and some paperwork and I am researching him best I can.

    Trooper 14272798 Harold Noel Sutherland
    23rd Hussars which I believe was an tank Regiment

    I have a army form B 104-81 which is a letter sent to the family explains that the above was wounded seriously or dangerously on the 2nd April 1945.

    Can anybody please assist with what the above was doing on this day, location and or possible regimental war diary covering this period?

    TYIA
    Gunner
     

    Attached Files:

  2. JDKR

    JDKR Member Patron

    Although no 23 Hussars tank casualties are recorded for 2 April, checkout dbf’s Tank Casualties 11th Armoured Division on this forum. This might provide a startpoint/clues for further research. It is likely that Tpr Sutherland’s Comet is listed under one of the ‘dates unknown’. Good luck!
     
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  3. Gunner400

    Gunner400 Active Member

    Sorry my mistake he survived but was very badly wounded
     
  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    He does not get mentioned in the casualty lists.
     
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  5. Wessex_Warrior

    Wessex_Warrior Junior Member

    Hello Gunner,

    From the "Story of the 23rd Hussars" Page 211 onwards.
    On 2nd April The Hussars were engaged in the crossing of the Dortmund-Ems canal and by 12:00 they were across and forming up behind 15/19th Hussars who were fighting on the slopes of the Teutoburger Wald. Soon Fourth Troop B Squadron had passed through them and entered the small town of Tecklenburg. The lead tank was was hit by a panzerfaust at the main crossroads. There followed a bitter engagement and the town was proper destroyed as the fanatical and cunning German Volkssturm were encountered. The fight lasted the rest of the day with C Squadron looping to the North to take the town in the rear but got bogged down in the mud and narrow tracks.
    On Page 277 it is mentioned that on 2nd April:

    Captain I.S. Geikie,
    Captain J.W.G Sandford,
    Sergeant R. Barradell,
    Trooper H. Sutherland.

    were wounded and nobody killed on that day. The two Captains were from A1 Echelon and were wounded when they were assaulted by a party of Germans. Sandford was A1 Echelon Commander therefore the QM and Geikie was the Signals Officer or RSO.
    As usual no mention of the Rank and File (workers).

    Kind regards,

    Will.
     
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  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Interestingly only the officers get a mention in the casualty lists.
     
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  7. JDKR

    JDKR Member Patron

    Assuming Tpr Sutherland was in the tank hit by the Panzerfaust, this might help narrow down analysis of the tank casualty record I mentioned in #2 as it usually records the type of enemy projectile, eg AP (armour-piercing), HC (shaped charge, ie Panzerfaust), which knocked out the tank.

    It is likely that non-commissioned casualties were not named in war diaries as the numbers involved would have overwhelmed the record keepers (probably the adjutant).
     
  8. Gunner400

    Gunner400 Active Member

    JDKR thanks I have looked through these but can’t find it mentioned.
    Will how do I get a copy of these are they in a book I buy or somewhere else? Thank you for adding the comments above. It would be nice to find the war diaries just to show what the troop, regiment were doing at time.

    being Gunner and not a tankie not sure of things
     
  9. JDKR

    JDKR Member Patron

    Should have said that HC = hollow charge, ie Panzerfaust.

    dbf’s list is a copy of the report on tank casualties made by two RAMC captains so is as good as it gets. The war diary should help although they can vary in reporting quality from fantastically good to fantastically monosyllabic! War diaries are held in the National Archives at Kew but things are not easy there at the moment - see the thread ‘National Archives!!!!!!’.

    There should be lots of folk on the site willing to help you so keep asking questions. In my book there is no such thing as a silly one!
     
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  10. Gunner400

    Gunner400 Active Member

    Thank you
     
  11. Wessex_Warrior

    Wessex_Warrior Junior Member

    Hello,

    The text doesn't say when Sergeant Barradell and Trooper Sutherland were wounded. Either, both or neither could have been in the B Squadron tank or in A1 Echelon with the officers. The text just says that following the lead tank being hit the Troop Leader reversed through a Jewellers shop. Troop leaders were normally occifers but could have been the sergeant or it may not have been the Troop Leaders tank that was leading (improbable in my view).
    The vagaries of War.

    Regards,

    Will.
     
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  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    11th Armoured Division, Tank Casualties, 1945
    List of 23 Hussars tank casualties reported by the survey, ordered by date, nb none are for 2/4/1945. The 9 at the bottom have no dates, might be relevant, might not be. (From experience with Gds listings, it can be quite difficult matching up anonymised data with WD info.)

    D.31., 23 Hussars, 30 March 1945
    D.32., 23 Hussars, 30 March 1945

    D.28., 23 Hussars, 14 April 1945

    D.33., 23 Hussars, 17 April 1945
    D.37., 23 Hussars, 17 April 1945
    D.38., 23 Hussars, 17 April 1945

    D.29., 23 Hussars, 1 May 1945
    D.30., 23 Hussars, 1 May 1945

    D.24., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.25., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.26., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.27., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.34., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.35., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.36., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.39., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
    D.48., 23 Hussars, Date Unknown
     
  13. JDKR

    JDKR Member Patron

    Now that I'm home I've been doing some digging as 23 Hussars come into my forthcoming book (Theirs the Strife, Helion & Co). Regrettably the war diary entries for which I have copies only start on 4 April as I was not interested in the detail of actions prior to that date. However, I found that I have copies of 29 Armd Bde's entries and found that these start on 2 April (see attached). Bravo. You will note that the entry for 2 April starts by stating that a 23 Hussars tank was hit by a bazooka (for which read Panzerfaust) on entering Tecklenburg. This supports post #5 by Wessex-Warrior (that reminds me of an exercise!). Tecklenburg (see map) is a small town to the south-east of Ibbenbueren, a town very fiercely defended by the Germans. So, it looks strongly that you now have the location. All you need to do now is to see the war diary....

    Hope that helps.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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  14. Gunner400

    Gunner400 Active Member

    JDKR that’s great thank you very much.
    The gents dad told him that the tank was hit and as he was getting out to help his colleagues he was hit all down his back and legs by fragments/ shrapnel
    Gunner
     

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