172 Squadron, Wing Comm. Rowland G Musson

My Genealogy research just keeps turning up more R.A.F. connections, this is No. 20.
Any details would be appreciated On Wing Commander Rowland Gascoigne MUSSON, died 24th Aug. 1943. I know 172 Sq. was with Coastal Command, was there some kind of action over the Channel on this date.

flyingshottsman

 

Pilot of Wellington MP624, crashed just after take off for patrol.

Ross

 

Thanks Ross,
Any details on crew?

 

Yes but for some time now I cannot cut and paste into the forum by any means.

You can find them by downloading the two sections Form 540/Form 541 for the month from the ORB at The National Archives web site and/or Geoff's Wonderful Search Engine.

Ross

 

I just came across this interesting WW2Talk forum. My father was Wing Commander Rowland Cascoigne Musson and was the CO at the RAF Coastal Command base at Chivenor in North Devon in 1943. My father was killed on 24 August 1943 when I was 2+ years old and I have no memories of him. I have managed to find out a limited amount of details about his career as a regular in the RAF, both before and during the war, and would certainly be interested in any additional information you may have about him.

Andrew Musson

 

Hello Andrew
do you have your Fathers service records
link below
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records


001 CARR E 123100 172 SQDN 24/08/1943 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE
002 MUSSON RG 34129 172 SQDN 24/08/1943 ROYAL AIR FORCE
003 RODDA FE 133953 172 SQDN 24/08/1943 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE
004 TODD B 1135127 172 SQDN 24/08/1943 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE
005 WALKER JS 614848 172 SQDN 24/08/1943 ROYAL AIR FORCE


001 BURDEN LH J/1016 172 RAF SQDN
25/08/1943 ROYAL CANADIAN AIR FORCE

edit:added casualty

regards
Clive

 

No172 Squadron...a war duration Coastal Command squadron ....sole type on charge...the Wellington ....could be a loss on detachment to Lagens or Gib....looks like the entire crew of 5 was lost (from post #6).The CWGC database should provide more information relating to the crew designations.

As an aside .....Chivenor what a lovely posting,now a RM depot....had a good look at the place as far as possible a couple of years ago.

Chivenor was the airfield where a German aircraft dropped in at dawn after a patrol thinking that he was in France...due to the alertness of those on duty,the aircraft and crew went into the bag....some might be be able to given a more informative account of this.

 

W/C Musson is interred at Heanton Punchardon which is just east of Chivenor across the A36 from the airfield...Chivenor incident.

 

Thank you for the MOD site address for service records information which I will follow up on.

The 6th member of my father's Wellington crew was Flight Lieutenant Leslie Herbert Burden, RCAF J/10166 who died on 25 August 1943 and is buried in the Heanton Punchardon (St. Augustine) Churchyard near Chivenor and next to my father.

 

Good evening. Myself and a local historian called Rob Palmer, have been researching the history of Chivenor in wartime and have been looking into local crashes in North Devon, where I live, We live locally.
We have been looking into some crashes and putting relatives of crews together of some already.

This one was on our radar at some stage to do but would be very happy to talk to Andrew Musson as know a bit about what happened

 

It would appear that Heanton Punchardon was used extensively for RAF burials from Chivenor. Some airfields used a local cemetery,the exception to this arrangement was the Polish Air Force which from East Midlands airfields, the dead were interred at Newark.

Scampton vilage has a large plot dedicated to those who fell during the war and also those who were killed or died in service postwar.Two Luftwaffe crews are also interred here, who for some reason were not reinterred at Cannock in 1961...graves well cared for under the direction of the CWGC.

For those who fell in Great Britain,the NOK determined the burial location........Looking at W/C Musson's crew list, three NOK choose to have their kin interred at Heanton Punchardon. Others choose the right to take their kin home for burial (or as the case might be at a burial location associated with the casualty, such as the home address of a fiancée.)

Presently on detachment in North Devon and will be paying my respects to W/C Musson and those of the Allied air forces who lie in Heanton Punchardon.

Per Ardua ad Astra.

Moooga1,Welcome to the ww2 Forum.I am sure you can contribute much about the history relating to air operations over North Devon.

It would be interesting to see a resume of your work into North Devon air crashes.

 

Thanks Harry, I have sent you PM

 

Sorry to have missed this thread first time round, your father is referred to as ‘George’ Musson a couple of times previous to this excerpt, when the author is reminiscing about his time at Heliopolis in 1936.

"R.G. Musson was an outstanding cricketer and an amusing and highly dedicated officer. He became a star navigation specialist and for 30 minutes held the world long distance flight record, navigating a Vickers Wellesley of the RAF Long Distance Flight non-stop for over 6,000 miles from Ismailia to Australia in 1937 until his tanks ran dry. A second Wellesley of the Flight, piloted by Squadron Leader Dick Kellett and guided by another pilot navigation specialist, Flight Lieutenant ’Nick’ R.T. Gething, was able to reach Darwin before their fuel ran out.
George finally bought it when in command of No 172 Leigh Light Wellington squadron at Chivenor in 1945 (sic). He inexplicably flew into telegraph wires in low cloud on the cliffs above Clovelly, a few minutes after taking off at night to attack U-Boats in the Atlantic, having carefully warned all the crews who preceded him to fly out well beyond Harland Point before turning towards the Scillies. His death was a very bad loss to the service”.

p106 “Man is Not Lost” by Group Captain Dickie Richardson (Airlife Publishing)

Pete

 

Hopefully, "Musson" sees this.

The first selection of documents are the RAF Proceedings of Court of Inquiry or Investigation.

Regards,

Dave

 

The second set is a highly detailed report by the Devonshire Constabulary.

Regards,

Dave

 

Thanks for posting Alien Eyes.

A comprehensive report and very interesting as all Courts of Inquiry are, whether they be military or civilian.As with this type of accident the Court of Inquiry would be convened to establish if the loss of the Wellington and deaths of its crew was due to system failure or human error.

Looking through the report,W/C was unlucky insofar as the report states that the Wellington.had it been just 10 feet higher would have cleared the telephone lines....a note added that it was surprising that a pilot of such experience could make such an error.

There was also the instruction to recover the aircraft's three compasses,.....I would think to ascertain if the compasses were in error.....one is recorded as being found.....no further note on the untraced two others.

A recommendation that cross country flying height at Clovelly should be at a minimum of 1500 feet.

I notice that the electrical supply and telephone facilities were restored in a relatively quick time.

 

I am fascinated by these postings, my father, Sam Rodda, was the second pilot on MP624. I was born 5 months after he was killed. My mother knew nothing of where the crash took place or any detail until 25 years ago when Harry Clement, a retired Metropolitan Police officer, organised a memorial service. A gentleman called Graham Moore is currently trying to organise a 75 year memorial.

 

Good afternoon Gentlemen I am trying to track down information about my Uncle who was an Australian flying with 172Sqn during WW2.
He was a FLTSGT Owen Ernest Currel Hoffmann
Service No:409920
KIA DEC 1943
His aircraft took off on the 5th of December 1943 and they were shoot down either on the 5th or 6th of December 1943.
Mike Hoffmann
MAJOR (RET)

 

SEARCH FOR NAME AND SERIAL NUMBER HERE
Search the collection – National Archives of Australia, Australian Government

Click on "Record search"
his casualty file while sadly not scanned indicates he was lost on

BARRETT Alwyn Walter Beves - (Flight Sergeant); Service Number - 421233; File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Wellington HE 141; Place - At sea; Date - 6 December 1943
IN addition the following were also mentioned in the report, most likely his crew mates
Descriptive note
In addition to the file subject, the following servicemen are mentioned in this record:

KIDSON A C – (Warrant Officer); Service Number – 408684

HOFFMAN C E – (Flight Sergeant); Service Number – 409920

CROFT – (Sergeant); Service Number – RAF 1488396

VEITH – (Sergeant); Service Number – RAF 1316692

COLLEY – (Sergeant); Service Number – RAF 1426533

You will need to check CWGC.org too see if they all died.

You can probably access that file if you live in Australia. it used to be cheap to get them scanned, seems to be not the case any more.

 

Thank you so much for this. I note they have him as C E Hoffman with one "N" not O E C Hoffmann.
This will make my father very happy.
Yours Aye
Michael Hoffmann