Discussion in '1940' started by BrianM59, Apr 12, 2015.
Could be the remains of a 4 in my opinion...
Good eye... then still B Squadron 15th/19th, 4th Troop.
Steve also posted these pictures to me. I'm quite sure that they were also taken in Flanders, but it doesn't feel like Assche to me... Maybe also Louvain...?
I noted in Taghon's Mei 1940 book in Chapter 18 plate 13 he makes mention of Oberfeldwebel Laske of 19ID who KOed 9 tanks including some in Assche. I haven't yet been able to locate anything on him and was wondering if others had found anything or had some suggestions on where to look.
Steve has asked me to post this together with some pictures, so here we go:
B Squadron 15th/19th Hussars Mk VIbs at Teralfene
(Some Speculation by Steve)
While doing some more research on what happened to B Squadron on May 18 I checked my copy of Taghon Mei 1940 and noticed a picture of two Mk VIbs abandoned on a road which I think I might have an ID on. Not sure if anyone has ID these tanks before.
The picture is In Taghon Mei 1940 chapter 18 plate 16. The caption says abandoned tanks on JB Calleboutstraat (JB Callebautstraat) and mentions Major Hinde leading a party of what remained of the regiment.
I checked with Street View and think I have found the location near a road underpass with a rail line above at about 30 JB Callebautstraat, Teralfene. This is not far from the small bridge over the Dender (Dendre) river further down JB Callebautstraat (about 105 JB Callaboutstraat). (See attached photo and Street View picture and map by Jan).
I then checked the 15th/19th war diaries for May 18 1940 and found an account for B Squadron tanks for Teralfene (Terralfene) on page 18. The account mentions Captain J. Watson, (2IC B Squadron) Lt F.E. Allusen (2nd Troop) and TSM Maddocks (Maddox) abandoned their tanks near "where the road passes under the railway line" after pursuing German armoured cars toward Teralfene. They were attempting to cross the bridge over the Dender River at the time and found the road heavily cratered and could not go further. They later proceeded on foot over what was left of the blown bridge.
So most likely the two lead tanks in the photo are Captain J. Watson's and Lt F.E. Allusen's.
15th/19th Hussars A Squadron FHQ: Major Cokayne-Frith’s Mk VIb at Assche Station
(Some Speculation by Jan and Steve)
Following up on Jan’s comments regarding the identification of Major Cokayne-Frith’s Mk VIb at the Assche Station in Post #23. I was looking further at Taghon Mei 1940 Chapter 18 plate 12. The caption indicates it's the Assche station and an A Squadron tank. Taghon speculates that plate 14 is Major Cokayne-Friths tank. (now identified as L/Cpl CRA Pearce’s Mk VIb)
I took a look on Street View and confirmed Jan’s location for the tank pictured in plate 12. In the upper left you can see the KOed scout carrier and a glimpse of L/Cpl CRA Pearce’s tank in front of the archbishop’s residence.
So the photo was taken just off the N9k road on a grassy area west of the station and the railway tracks, (on the outskirts of the main town). Just east of this area are the Lindenpark houses that are just off N9k.
The Lindenpark houses are mentioned in the account of Trooper George Sargent a DR for FHQ who was on the back of Major Cokayne-Frith’s tank when it was KOed. Trooper Sargent recalls making his way to these houses for aide after being wounded see post #28 and post #51.
Also note that the turret of the tank in plate 12 only has the triangle tactical mark and no number indicating it's an FHQ tank.
The war diaries for 15th/19th May 18 1940, page 13, indicated Major Cokayne-Frith’s tank was KOed on the outskirts of Assche and that 2IC Captain Mytton made it into Assche before he abandoned his tank and was captured.
All this information seems to support Jan’s thoughts, Post # 23, that the tank in Taghon Ch 18 plate 12 is Major Cokayne-Frith’s tank.
Jan has further speculated that the tank on the side road in the upper left in Taghon Ch 18 Plater 12 is the tank in post #23 with the "I-4-5-9-c2” sticker adjacent to a low brick wall. This one seems undamaged and might have been moved from Stationstraat to the side street by the Germans. It has a triangle tactical mark on the turret but no number visible. A little more digging and speculation is needed to confirm if it’s FHQ (Captain Mytton), 4th Troop (Lt Lord Cliffton) or a 5th Troop tank, (2nd Lt Lloyd-Mostyn).
I have a couple of extra images of this location showing the three tanks abandoned here.
The first one is pretty much the same view as in 'Taghon'
They have been pushed off the road by the time the second photograph was taken.This picture seems to show that the third tank was hit from behind by a/tk fire.
This third image also shows the three in the same position but unfortunately no identifying markings.
Here's another picture of these B Squadron tanks at Teralfene. You can see what looks like a crater in the road under the under pass.
Excellent pictures! We've got more and more pieces of this big jigsaw puzzle!
I have got a late 1930's map of Belgium, that may give us a better view of the roads back then. Especially in that region things have changed a lot since WW2! I've made an overlay in Google Earth and here are some screenshots:
Cool......... nice job. You may also want to look at the maps of Belgium on the last pages of the 15th/19tth Hussars regimental History 1939-1945. They cover all the May June 1940s stuff but I'm not sure how scale accurate they are.
Getting back to Assche. Here's another Mk VIb in Assche. This one is near 14 Gemeenteplein, note the buildings behind the tank in the Street View shot. This one is closer to Sint-Martinuskerk but south of HORSA location.
There is also a damaged DR motorcycle beside the tank (AT round and burned?). Jan notes that this could be the bike of the dead DR in his earlier post #24.
Thanks to Peter for providing this picture.
More or less the same scale as my Belgian roadmap, and quite accurate as well!
Have just been able to identify another location. Steve's last picture was taken at the Town Square (gemeenteplein) in Assche. The tank has been camouflaged with a lot of foliage.
I have just discovered that this must be the same tank, as it was photographed more or less at the same location: Town Square (gemeenteplein), but these are houses at the other side of the road:
Proof: this late 1920's or early 1930's postcard. The houses on the left hand side are these on the first picture, the houses on the right hand side are these on the second picture:
It looks more and more as if this well camouflaged tank was the one that was used by the Germans to do some siteseeing, and maybe also to clear the roads. It wouldn't surprise me if the well camouflaged tank in the timber yard would also be the same tank:
There were a number of tanks camouflaged with branches and in some cases chicken-wire and they are visible in the Pathé film of the 15th / 19th Hussars retreating into Leuven a few days earlier. It seems that the material was applied at the time they were on a covert reconnaissance mission and dug-in hidden along the line Diest - Tienen from 11th May onwards.
Nice spot Jan! Here's a cleaner version of the timber yard without the red lettering.
Here is another view of the "Lindendries" Mk VIb. This shot is from the right rear. Same camo (branches), damaged rear left and antenna.
Here's an annotated view provided by Jan.
Here are the other views from previous posts.
This tank has been identified on Lindendries near Assche based on the farm buildings in the photo and comparison match with Street View, post #20 by Jan.
Alternatively based on the tactical markings (B Squadron) and regimental war diaries it has been suggested it's located outside Brusseghem and is L/Sgt Longs tank, posts #55 and #57 Rich, Steve. I searched the area around Brusseghem with Street View but couldn't find the farm buildings in the photo. Some additional photo proof would need to be found to substantiate this alternative.
B Squadron 15th/19th Hussars in the Woods Near Helkelgem
This is a continuation of Post #65 which documents the 3 Mk VIb of B Squadron abandoned at a rail underpass at Teralfene.
The 15th/19th war diaries and the German 19ID IR79 history indicated the following events for B Squadron while trying to find a bridge to cross the Dender (Dendre) River on the afternoon of May 18 1940.
After becoming separated from the 3 Mk VIbs pursuing German armoured cars toward Teralfene Major Hinde lead the remainder of B squadron to the southern exit of Hekelgem. At this time B Squadron consisted of 3 Mk VIb tanks (Major Hinde, L/Cpl Grayling and L/Cpl Wilding) and 3 Troops of scout carriers (totaling 9 carriers). Here they came under SA fire from the German IR79 and turned around and re-entered the village. Their destination was first the Telalfene bridge, then the Okegem bridge and then the Leuvenstraat bridge as orders changed from the Brigadier and Major Hinde changed his orders to the squadron.
Finally after moving east on the main road from Hekelgem B Squadron again came under German SA fire from IR79. Major Hinde then gave orders to move north off the main road along a track close to a wooded area. Major Hinde left his tank to give orders to the Squadron and was hit by SA fire. He then guided the carrier of Cpl Pearce (not L/Cpl Pearce) along the track and became separated from the rest of the troop. Unfortunately the rest of B Squadron again came under SA and AT fire from 19ID IR74 7th Kompanie under Lieutnant Stein.
One Mk VIb was hit in the rear and the other vehicles got bogged down in muddy wet terrain when they moved off the track to avoid the German fire. A total of 2 tanks and 7 carriers were damaged or abandoned in the wooded area.
Only SSM Griffiths carrier made it through the wooded area to join up with Major Hinde`and Cpl Pearce`s carrier. It`s not clear what happened to Major Hindes tank. Major Hinde then gave orders to abandon the remaining vehicles. So a total of 11 vehicles were hit or abandoned. Major Hinde again became separated somehow from his small party but managed to cross the Dendre by himself to safety.
The first photo shows the two Mk VIbs of L/Cpl Grayling and L/Cpl Wilding stuck on either side of the track with a 37mm AT hit in the rear and 2 carriers bogged down to the right of the track.
This annotated photo by Jan shows a closer view of the 37mm AT gun hit and far right carrier.
The third photo shows another 3 carriers bogged down to the right of the track and one with track and boggy damage possibly caused in an attempt to free the carrier.
Thanks to Jan for feedback on my ideas and Peter for the pictures.
The 15th/19th Hussars war diaries provides little insight into the activities of 6th Troop A Squadron commanded by TSM William Tipping on May 18,1940. It is known that 6th Troop upon moving toward Walfergem , at about 1200, engaged German motor cyclists between Wemmel and Walfergem and dispersed them. The Troop then moved to Walfergem and set up defensive positions facing east.
2[SIZE=11.6666669845581px]nd[/SIZE] Troop A Squadron, 2nd Lt G. Courage, retired through Walfergem at 1330. At that time TSM Tipping reported that the Germans were retiring NE toward Wemmel and that he was still in wireless communication with the Squadron leader.
Shortly after 6[SIZE=11.6666669845581px]th[/SIZE] Troop retired along the main road toward Assche following after 2[SIZE=11.6666669845581px]nd[/SIZE] Troop.
In doing so they came under heavy German AT fire and were shotup. There was only one wounded man who was picked up by 2[SIZE=11.6666669845581px]nd[/SIZE] Troop, the rest were captured and wounded.
L/Cpl CRA Pearce’s account of events on May 18 mentions that he recalled walking down the main road from Assche after being captured and noticing the KOed and burned carrier of TSM W. Tipping in a field by the road.
The following photos show TSM W. Tippings KOed scout carrier in a field west of Walfergem. The first photo shows the characteristic camo (branches) used by A Squadron and heavy damage to left rear of the carrier, presumably by AT fire, and fire damage.
The second photo from the right side shows track damage and a downed antenna. Antennas and radios were only found on commanders carriers. The road can be seen in the background with several horse drawn carts.
In addition a WW2talk member has confirm an additional photo (not shown here) of this carrier which shows a triangle tactical symbol and a 6. These points confirm it is the 6[SIZE=11.6666669845581px]th[/SIZE] Troop carrier of TSM W.Tipping.
The last photos shows TSM W.Tippings unique grave in Mollem Community Cemetry.
Another brave Hussar, Rest in Peace, Merebimur.
Thanks to Rich and Peter for the photos and Jan and Andrew for feedback on my ideas.
Hello, some time ago I was searching for family members of Martin, Derek St George who is buried at Mechelen.
I was not successful.
I have a part of the Roll of honour, maybe this is interesting for some of you.
Separate names with a comma.