Wormhout Massacre/Battle Related Research Questions

I posted a picture of 2 Warwicks Regimental Aid Post in the Massacre Thread. It's near as dam it where the No.17 is on the map you posted. It's quite hard to see/find as it is surrounded by a grey wall with railings and trees. I had to do a bit of climbing to get a few shots of it.

 

Thanks for that Andy. It is one and the same - still used for as a First Aid Post only for civilians now by the look of it.

Meant to visit Cado Brico (site of the old Chateau) but forgot - what street is it on?

Pretty sure I can now show last positions of 15 Platoon North and South and link in with Oxley's report but will wait until my father is a bit better before bombarding him with the photos. Also sure that I can identify 15 Platoon's position on Esquelbecq Road.

 

It seems I did the Compiler of B Coy Cheshires War Diary an injustice when I accused him of getting his numbers wrong.

His Log was destroyed and his report is from memory!

I have also got a better copy of Cheshire HQ and B War Diaries - typed version attached.

These War Diaries disagree on the Platoon numbers. However, there is agreement that 7 Platoon was at Ledringhem on 27th May and that the Platoon Commanders were as follows:

2nd Lt Woodhouse missing with Platoon at Ledringhem on 28th May

Lt Clemence commanding B Coy Platoon at Wormhout

2nd Lt Reid missing with Platoon at West Cappel on 29th May.

If I could find out the Numbers relating to the Plt Commanders, I would have solved the puzzle. Any ideas?

 

Sorry here is typed version of HQ War Diary Cheshires

 

Bombed out again - here goes again only briefer.Additional info thanks to Andy.

14 Platoon Cheshires was surrounded and 15 men plus Plt Comder Plt SM Tilliard killed and all guns lost at rear guard action on the River Dendre, 19th May. 2nd IC D Coy Cheshires, Capt Lucking was killed while trying to contact 15 Pln.

14 Pln was re-organised at La Panne on 26th May with addition of section of 2nd Battalion Cheshire under Sgt Farrier and 14 Plt placed under acting command of Lt Merlin Davies also from 2nd Battalion. Capt Lucking was replaced with Capt Sir John Nicholson of C Coy Cheshire who acted as 2 IC for D Coy. 8 guns were with drawn from reserve - these gave problems at Wormhout.

 

2 Warwicks HQ was where the Bergues road and Esquelbecq Road meet. Their MT was behind the buildings in a wooded area. When the HQ was bombed and severly damaged it moved, I believe across the Esquelbecq Road into a park not marked on the map you posted.

 

If I could find out the Numbers relating to the Plt Commanders, I would have solved the puzzle. Any ideas?


Hi Paul, what exactly (Numbers) are you after? I have the orbat for a MG Battalion in May 1940.

Why I think of it, Andrew - I have the same for Anti-Tank Coys if you are interested?

 

Hi Andy

My obsession is to finally nail down just which B Coy Cheshire Platoon was at Wormhout. It was definitely commanded by Lt Clemence but there is disagreement in the War Diaries of HQ, B Coy and D Coy about the Platoon number.

 

Hi Andy

I have been studying the Wormhout Church as it is central to a deduction I believe that I can make.

I amazed to say I can't believe that the shots you show in your other thread of the Church in 1940, post 6, and the one today are the same Church.

The shape looks different and the number of windows in the bell tower are different eg 4 in the 1940 picture and 2 in the modern photo.

Angles are also a bit funny.

 

The Embankment of this railway also figures in the retreat of 12 Platoon Warwicks from the battlefield - is it possible to sketch the course of this railway on Andy- Idler's map?

I was a bit slow on the uptake with this one, here's my best guess:

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37285&stc=1&d=1285702586

(PS Andy: the Inf A/Tk information sounds very interesting - I hope it hasn't got buried since you mentioned it!)

 

Looks like you get 10 out 10 Andy.

Found this article (in French unfortunately) - site is yserhouck.free.fr/Textes/petit_train.html

I am attaching a schematic of the railway which ran from Momelin to Herzeele. Built in 1912, it was dismantled in 1953 (so I bet the nice lady librarian I met in Esquelbecq Public Library knows of it - she speaks excellent English - my ancient age but a lot trimmer and is very interested in the Massacre).

Looks like the line ran from Esquelbecq upto Pavee be Bergues (stop for passengers) before crossing direct to Wormhout with another stop south of Wormhout where it picked up water from Peene Becque (and maybe served the Salt Works in Wormhout) before continuing to Kruys Straete.

Sounds like a rum affair. Went down streets and across towns running over anything in its path, cows, horses and people - so much for health and safety in 20th Century.

Anyway it was still active in 1940 albeit for commercial traffic only.

 

Sorry got logged out - very frustrating!

here is the schematic

 

Having established where the Little Flanders Railway was, it is possible to pinpoint Cookson's position. See Map attached, together with other info.

Even if Cookson was not 10 plt (Gunnel) then he must have been 11 pl (Dunwell). In either case he was further North than the accepted version of Warwicks B Company's position. Bit curious that he could have an AT Gun in a ditch - I wish that I had bought the French version of Rommelaere because there are some obvious mistranslations - is this one!

Also photo of Rossignol from Cookson's position (blob on left of photo. I would have taken photo of Bollingier farm as well but there is a new house in the way)

 

The AT Gun could have been a Boyes AT Rifle rather than a 25mm Artillery Piece.

 

The War Diary states that 12 Platoon B Warwicks (or more exactly Half of 12 platoon)was heard by Jerram at 9.00pm at battling with Germans on The Little Flanders Railway - and then working their way further South, swinging right around Wormhout to en on the North East side before escaping down the Herzeele Road.

Further evidence that 12 Plt were well North of the Esquelbecq Road.

Also Kissach (and his intelligence Officer) , who tries to be very meticulous in the D Coy Cheshire War Diary does not mention Cheshires on the North Side of Wromhoudt but does say that Warwicks managed to keep the Germans at bay from this direction - a good indication that Warwicks were guarding the Bergues Road and could only be 12 Plt B Coy, (and possibly the Platoon of Pioneers that Hicks sent in this general area)

 

If he was in B Coy 2 Warwicks, it could only have been a Boys, that's all they would have had. Pushing it a bit, he could have been ex-B Coy transferred to the brigade anti-tank coy (any diary, Andy??) and had a 25mm Hotchkiss, but you wouldn't have got one of those in a firing position in a ditch.

The question remains exactly how you take out three houses with a weapon designed to poke little holes in things; whether it's 0.55", 25mm or 40mm holes I think is irrelevant. The tale may have suffered from being translated from English to French then back again - I've seen that before in some of the Heimdal books where I know the source. Could it be interpreted as there being an anti-tank gun near him in his ditch?

 

Only a HQ Brigade diary for 144 Brigade.

 

You may recall that LCpl Oxley produced a report - brief extracts of which are shown both in Sebag's and in Rommelaere's book. I now have the full text of this report and the Little Flanders Railway figures again.

In part of the report, Oxley says that having entered the Square from behind the Church (ie South side), been surprised by Germans at the other end of the Square who started firing, he was thrown out of the lorry by a sudden swerve; subsequently shot and when he came to saw the following:

" Directly opposite where I lay, there was an air raid shelter which appeared to me to be under the railway embankment. A party of men came to the top of the Shelter steps. the Germans were calling them out but the men would not come out. After a short while two Germans went along and threw grenades down the Shelter. After that I saw no sign of life around the Shelter".

Rommaele says the Railway ran across the North side of the square (as in the photo) past the large damaged building. Rommeleale say that this is now the Tax Office. I can't recall seeing this (Andy - is it near the Public Library?). My guess would then be that the Railway then continued east across the Peene Becq via the Bridge to Herzeele before turning South to the Halt in South Wormhoudt.

I have seen no mention of an Air Raid Shelter and why would this Railway have any embankment in the Square?

I have to admit the rest of Oxley's report is almost equally puzzling. I had hoped it would confirm my father's recollection but it is very different.

 

That picture is looking at the Tourist Office. There is a now shot of it in my thread with Rob standing on the corner.

Did I read somewhere you made a local contact interested in what happened in the area at the end of May?

I'm wondering if she could help me with my unidentified officer in Esquelberc Cememtery-I think I need some local imput to see if there is any truth in what happened to him and LCPL Webber.

 

Andy - the shot you show earlier of Cheshire 15 platoon's view South in the Market Square is incorrect. The 2 guns of this section of the platoon were South of the Square - my father confirms that he has never seen the Square before. The view that they had is shown below - a straight shot of several miles down the Cassel Road . This makes sense because the Vickers had a range of 2700yards and fire rate of 600 bullets per minute - much more powerful than a Bren of only 550 yards range and magazine of 28-30 bullets (which one would have put in the Square).

He remembers very strongly a large building like a Bank behind him and firing down the street at Germans coming from the South. The British wounded were taken into the "Bank".

Oxley, if you remember, says two lorries were parked behind the Church. Two would be correct - ie one per gun. In fact Oxley is wrong "behind" should be termed "alongside" the Church - see map of Centre below. I have been down the Ruelle de Eglise and to my surprise, the back of the Church ends at the Peene Becq. Only 3 feet separate the back of the Church from the Stream and today there is a 8 foot high iron railing preventing anyone going around the back of the Church. The bridge is only a footbridge and I see in the famous "A Company map- Otto Baum Map" that no bridge seems to exist here in 1940.

The Church is built directly onto a new large building - presumably this was the large "Bank" of 1940. Obviously Oxley's transports could not pick up my father's guns with out coming into the Square. Oxley says he ordered by Lt Ravenscroft (on the Bergues Road) into the lorries yet Oxley was shot up by Germans at the North end of the Square. See pics Below.

The Cheshire Regiment History "Ever Glorious" says that Cheshires were killed in a fight in Rue de Eglise - which would fit since one of Otto Baum's Platoons is shown as attacking down this Street. Any succesful attack from this direction would eliminate any gunners in my father's position.

My father remembers escaping through a house and crossing a small Stream (Peen Becq?) and then across open fields. At this stage there four of them but two were killed later when they sheltered in a building.

As you know, I am more interested in the Cheshires and the battle than the massacre - however I can confirm that Mason - killed in the barn was 15 Platoon and Linager, was also 15 Platoon. My guess is both were with the Southern section of 15 Platoon.