Where did brigades go? Vanished? Why and Who disbanded?

Discussion in 'British Indian Army' started by Ahmed Muhammad, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Hi all
    I have a research thesis on British Indian Army in North West Frontier. In my research I am unable to ascertain that why certain establishments that is Landi kotal, Thal, Nowshera and Razmak Brigades of 1St Peshawar Division Northran Command were disbanded in 1945? Few research findings were
    - 1st Noshera Brigade was raised 1906 Hart's List
    - The brigade remains on radar till 1918 (to which date monthly Army Lists are there)
    -after that it disappears and reappears in 1930s in MOFORCE till around 1937 and disappears for good
    -Thal, Razmak and Landikotal brigades only exist on Wikipedia scantily
    - No substatiations are given any where to my dismay
    - A book by Pakistani General Fazal Muqeem only mentions Thal brigade .....going to Pakistan in partition other brigades are just not in records

    I shall be immensely obliged if someone could help me in tracing the fate of these brigades. My thesis stuck
    thanx
     
  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

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  3. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    That sounds a bit cryptical: "the book I'd consult". If you have a specific book (and co-writer) in mind you might as well reveal the title... :)
     
  4. I have gone through various books even Afghanistan Gazetters 1910 & 1914. A lead was given
    "Landikotal, Taxman and That were Frontier Brigades...not regular brigades. However Noshera Brigade was a regular brigade under 1st Peshawar Division established under Kitchener Reforms. Hypothesis is that may be in 1945 these were all amalgamated as Nowshera Brigade to be only one brigade "
    "I wonder what is there in Indiaan Army Northern Command Orders 1908-1946
    IOR/L/MIL/17/5/379-412. Where are the war diaries of these brigades??? Even knowledge of their existence somewhere could be helpful"
    I tried district administration Landikotal and Khyber both...they don't have record. I tried Kohat administration they don't have any record....even historic Khyber rifles have no record of Landikotal Brigade.
    What a tragedy with history.
     
  5. Landikotal, Razmak and Thal....
     
  6. idler

    idler GeneralList

    You're assuming I can remember the convoluted 'volume in a series' title accurately enough to be of any use! But I have a plan...
     
  7. This is what I recieved....three names on one crest...with 103 written. Any idea???
     

    Attached Files:

  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

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  9. RobG64

    RobG64 Well-Known Member

    Ahmed, the three volumes of ''The British Armies in World War Two: An Organisational History", Volumes 8, 9 & 10: The Indian Army are essential reading. A brief summation of the Frontier Brigades in WW2 (September 1939 to August 1945). On 3rd September 1939 there were ten Frontier brigades in the Indian Army covering the North West Frontier from any Russian aggression and involved in tribal skirmishes and clashes

    Northern Command (North Western Army from April 1942) - H.Q. Rawalpindi
    Peshawar District - a mountain regiment and two light tank companies Royal Tank Corps
    Peshawar Brigade - the reserve for the district with five infantry battalions and a cavalry regiment
    Landi Kotal Brigade - covered the Khyber Pass area with six infantry battalions
    Nowshera Brigade - covered the Malakand District as well as Campbellpore, Dargai, Chakdura and Cherat with three infantry battalions
    Kohat District - a cavalry regiment and a mountain regiment
    Kohat Brigade - covered the southern part of the district with four infantry battalions
    Thal Brigade - covered the northern part of the district with three infantry battalions
    Waziristan District - a cavalry regiment
    Razmak Brigade - the district reserve with six infantry battalions, a mountain regiment and a light tank company Royal Tank Corps
    Bannu Brigade - covered the northern part of the district (Mir Ali, Damdil and Gardai) with six infantry battalions
    Wana Brigade - covered the Manzai area with five infantry battalions
    Western (Independent) District (re-designated Baluchistan District under command N.W. Army from April 1942) - H.Q. Quetta
    a cavalry regiment and a mountain regiment
    Khojak Brigade - based in Quetta with three infantry battalions
    Zhob Brigade - covered the northern part of the district (Lorali) with four infantry battalions
    (Sind and Quetta Brigades reduced to Area status by 1939)

    Notes:
    Khojak Brigade re-designated 20th Indian Infantry Brigade in September 1940
    A new Khojak Brigade raised September 1940
    Khojak Brigade disbanded in May 1944
    Gardai Brigade raised October 1944 as an additional Frontier brigade in Kohat District
    Kohat Brigade re-designated Kohat (Independent) Brigade in March 1945 and absorbed Thal Brigade

    Post-war, the Landi Kotal Brigade disbanded in February 1947 and the Zhob Brigade in August 1947

    Rob Glynn
     
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  10. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Thanks for doing that, Rob. Not had a chance to dig them out yet.
     
  11. Many many thanx Rob. Two great pieces of info
    Thal brigade absorbed by Kohat Brigade
    Landi Kotal Brigade disbanded
    Really are of consequence to my research
    Now I have to find out what happened to 2(Noshera) infantry Brigade ex 1st Peshawar Division
    I am really thankful to you.

     
  12. Maureene

    Maureene Well-Known Member

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  13. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    I am the David A. Ryan mentioned above. I am away at the moment but I will take a look at your query when I return home tomorrow.
     
  14. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is what I have on the four brigades you are interested in:

    Landi Kotal Brigade - Disbanded in February 1947
    Thal Brigade - Disbanded in March 1945. Units allocated to the Kohat [Independent] Brigade
    Nowshera Brigade - Still existed in August 1947
    Razmak Brigade - Still existed in August 1947

    The source of this information is: (particularly Part II)
    Kempton, Chris. Loyalty and Honour: The Indian Army September 1939 – August 1947: Part I Divisions. Milton Keynes: Military Press, 2003. (D.Ryan)

    Kempton, Chris. Loyalty and Honour: The Indian Army September 1939 – August 1947: Part II Brigades. Milton Keynes: Military Press, 2003. (D.Ryan)

    Kempton, Chris. Loyalty and Honour: The Indian Army September 1939 – August 1947: Part III. Milton Keynes: Military Press, 2003. (D.Ryan)
     
  15. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Ahmed,

    Just came across your post here and joined to enable a reply. My interest is in events in North-West Frontier Province at the time of Partition in August 1947, not details for the years before. I have drafted an article for publication in 'Durbar', the journal of the Indian Military History Society. See: Indian Military Historical Society

    In my research I found that:

    1) In summary this process started in 1944 with a committee that recommended a new frontier policy: that regular troops should be withdrawn and Razmak, Wana and Khyber Pass garrisons should be replaced with scouts and Khassadars (tribal levies). In April 1946, Indian Army Commander-in-Chief Field Marshal Claude Auchinleck presided at a high-level conference at Peshawar which agreed with the recommendations. It was to be gradual withdrawal in five phases which would be completed in two years. See: The North-West Frontier in 1947 – Brown Pundits Several books also refer to these decisions
    2) On 23 July 1947, GOC of Northern Command Lieutenant General Frank Messervy, who was to become the Army Commander upon Pakistani Independence, issued orders for reconstitution of his command. According to this plan, fourteen battalions deployed on frontier defence were to be reduced. By August 1947, there were three brigades of regular troops in the Peshawar Area at Nowshera, Peshawar and Kohat.See above link.
    3) General Stanley Menezes (then a Major) refers to a conference on the 28-29th August 1947, where the Army Commander, General Messervy, announced that two of the three battalions at Thal - the Grenadiers and a Sikh Battalion - were to go to India by train. From: Stanley Menezes IWM Oral History interview (Reel 6) available online. I expect the third battalion was earmarked to go to Pakistan.
    4) . It is noteworthy that under Operation Gulmarg, the Pakistani main invasion plan, every Pathan tribe was required to enlist at least one Lashkar of 1,000 tribesmen. These Lashkars were to be concentrated at Bannu, Wana, Peshawar, Kohat, Thal and Nowshera by the first week of September 1947. The Pakistani Army Brigade Commanders were to issue them with arms, ammunition and some essential clothing items. See: Defending Kashmir - Bharat Rakshak - Indian Army & Land Forces
    5) On 1/9/1947 an off-line paper refers to 'Chief Pakistani Army (General Messervy) and the CO Thal Brigade' were at Thal to see an Indian battalion leave by train.
    6) In one Menezes interview he refers to the (Kohat) General Officer Commanding (GoC) Major General Ross McKay, an Australian. Probably Menezes IWM Oral History interview (Reel 7). I have been unable to find much about him, except he stayed in the Pakistani Army.
    7) It may help to set the scene along the frontier. In 1943 fifty-seven British and Indian infantry battalions and four armoured car regiments were deployed there. See: T.R. Moreman's ‘The Army in India and the Development of Frontier Warfare 1849-1947’.
    8) In Waziristan alone in May 1947 four infantry battalions, including Rajput’s and Ghurkhas, were withdrawn. By July 1947 nineteen infantry battalions there were reduced to fourteen. By August 1947 only three battalions were at full strength and the rest at half strength without warning. At this time the garrison was 65% Hindu and Sikh (one armoured car regiment, two army transport regiments and seven infantry battalions). From:
    Operation Curzon file @ National Army Museum, London refers to the withdrawal of Army units from NWFP in December 1947. Written by Major-General Roger Eustace Fleming, who has no known biography; he served as CO Waziristan 1944-1947 and retired in 1948.
    9) Today I found this website and an account of the Indian Army Corps of Signals in 1947, it has references to brigade-level signals unit at various NWFP brigades. See: veekay's history book: CHAPTER I - THE CORPS AT INDEPENDENCE

    The absence of records you refer to can be explained by the chaos of splitting the Indian Army, the absence of a national Pakistani Army HQ and what appears to be a reluctance to record, let alone write on what happened in those times.
    Quite clearly there was a Thal Brigade in August 1947, even it was to be withdrawn and reformed upon independence as a Pakistani Army formation.
     
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  16. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    My article has now been published in 'Durbar' and one particular gap remains: what happened to the Sikh infantry battalion that was also @ Thal, after Partition? Research found the Sikh unit was Rattray's Sikhs, then commanded by Lt. Col. CHF Walter (not id'd further) and they did return to India after 2nd September 1947 - no details alas. It appears they were moved by road to Kohat and then flown out.

    In 2019 I may look at what the six British brigades in India at Partition did during the mayhem. I know of one infantry battalion being deployed on guard duties, no-one wanted them to placed in a position where they had to kill Indians.

    April 2020 update. The 2019 intended research hit a roadblock, but some information is on this thread: Force 401 in Iraq August 1946-August 1947
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
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  17. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    In separate research recently I have discovered that it was not Rattray's Sikhs @ Thal, as partition approached. The Sikh infantry battalion was the 3rd Sikh Light Infantry and they left in July 1947.[1]

    [1] From ‘A Regimental History Sikh Light Infantry 1941-1947 Edited J.D. Hookway 1999 and available free via: https://archive.org/details/MRARegimentalHistory/page/n37/mode/2up pg.36 refers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
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  18. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    An Australian member (Tor) has added a thread and that has references to Operation Curzon: Temp Lt. Col. Reginald Sherman Steed, 5/8th Punjab Regiment, Burma?

    His focus is on the Temporary Brigadier commanding Razmak Area; not an easy place to be in Waziristan.

    I have not looked at the operation and these matters for more than three years.
     

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