It occurred to me that, to outsiders, we contributors on this forum might appear as war mongers. After all, we endlessley debate and analyse all aspects of a conflict that ended over sixty years ago, moreover one that proved the most costly in human lives in recorded history. Even the carnage of The First World war didn't claim as many lives as The second. It is also sobering to reflect that the second conflict claimed more civilian casualties than it did military - it truly was "total war". So why is it, when Europe is now bonded into a commercial coalition of trading partners, and Japanese electronics goods can be found in virtually every household in this country, and when so few of the individual protagonists are still with us, why is it we still find ourselves fascinated with the subject? It seems a predominately male fascination, too. Of course, there are female contributors on these forums - very good ones, too - but on the whole it is male territory. So is it something to do with the male pysche? Your comments welcome...
I can only speak for myself but i grew up surrounded with veterns of the various theatres including RAF aircrew and from them and my own personal study aquired alot about the war. They taught us about the war in history at school and many of the teachers were vets as well. it was good to speak to men who had been in battles that we only studied. On one occassion we had to write about rationing and i aske my mum, she made a whole meal from "rations". Two of the recipes I still use as they were enjoyable! My interest in ww2 was actually sparked off by recieving a airfix kit of the spitfire Mk21!
I can only speak for myself but i grew up surrounded with veterns of the various theatres including RAF aircrew and from them and my own personal study aquired alot about the war. They taught us about the war in history at school and many of the teachers were vets as well. it was good to speak to men who had been in battles that we only studied. On one occassion we had to write about rationing and i aske my mum, she made a whole meal from "rations". Two of the recipes I still use as they were enjoyable! My interest in ww2 was actually sparked off by recieving a airfix kit of the spitfire Mk21! Yes, a lot of my own interest was kindled by Airfix kits and the like, although i recall drawing WW2 aeroplanes and pilots, albeit crudely, long before I received my first spitfire kit at the age of six! Incidentally, I never knew Airfix had ever produced a Mk 21 Spitfire...
Incidentally, I never knew Airfix had ever produced a Mk 21 Spitfire... I never got to build it my eldest brother decided that he would bulid it! So i do not really not know who manufactured the kit1 But there was also the ATC with is WW2 uniforms including collar studs, lee enfields and ww2 radio kit!
I never got to build it my eldest brother decided that he would bulid it! So i do not really not know who manufactured the kit1 But there was also the ATC with is WW2 uniforms including collar studs, lee enfields and ww2 radio kit! Right. I was in the ATC for almost 8 years, from the age of 13 to just before my 21st birthday. Got all my first flying and gliding experience there, as well as firing .303 rifles, light machine guns, and 7.62 SLRs. I stll miss those days, even now...
My interest stems from the fact that my Dad, like for many other dads, fought in WWII. But not only from that. My Mum was taken by the Soviets (NKVD), at the age of 18, from Poland to Kazakhstan. My Mum’s experience must have been so bad that she never talked about it. Not even about before the war. Now I try to find out about people that might have had similar experiences. My Dad also did not talk about the war and I was too young to be really interested. Now that I am older and they are gone I can not ask them, so I ask others and read about the war. Also, I suppose, the war or the outcome defined where I was born. My Dad would not go back to for fear of being arrested by the Soviets and put in a labour camp again. He had already been ‘arrested’ by the Soviets in 1940 and placed in prison followed by a labour camp and did not want the same again or, maybe even worse, being shot, as many were. My Mum did not want to go back as the part of Poland that she came before the war was taken by the Soviets. So it has nothing to do with being a war monger. Marek
My interest stems from the fact that my Dad, like for many other dads, fought in WWII. But not only from that. My Mum was taken by the Soviets (NKVD), at the age of 18, from Poland to Kazakhstan. My Mum’s experience must have been so bad that she never talked about it. Not even about before the war. Now I try to find out about people that might have had similar experiences. My Dad also did not talk about the war and I was too young to be really interested. Now that I am older and they are gone I can not ask them, so I ask others and read about the war. Also, I suppose, the war or the outcome defined where I was born. My Dad would not go back to for fear of being arrested by the Soviets and put in a labour camp again. He had already been ‘arrested’ by the Soviets in 1940 and placed in prison followed by a labour camp and did not want the same again or, maybe even worse, being shot, as many were. My Mum did not want to go back as the part of Poland that she came before the war was taken by the Soviets. So it has nothing to do with being a war monger. Marek Very valid reasons for the interest. Of course, I never said we were war mongers, just that to outsiders it may appear so. I well remember, a few years ago, driving to work with a copy of a magazine special entitled something like, "The Rise of Hitler's Luftwaffe" on the back seat of my car. After work, I offered a lift to a couple of colleauges who, upon spying the said magazine, gave me a very strange look and, from what they said, clearly thought I was some sort of closet Nazi! It mattered not that I explained that, not only was I a pilot myself, with a natural interest in aeroplanes, but I was also an avid student of military aviation history and was enamoured of the machines, not the politics that created them. I had a similar reaction not long after when another group of colleagues saw my copy of Len Deighton's novel "Bomber" on the back seat, and inferred from that I was some sort of war lover. Even though I tried to explain it was one of the most powerful anti-war novels ever written, I couldn't wholly convince them otherwise. I became very selective in the sort of reading material I left on my back seat after that! Has anyone else had similar experiences?
Right. I was in the ATC for almost 8 years, from the age of 13 to just before my 21st birthday. Got all my first flying and gliding experience there, as well as firing .303 rifles, light machine guns, and 7.62 SLRs. I stll miss those days, even now... I was in it for four years. in fact i ddi not leave the ATC until the same day I joined the RAF! i still lots of the aircraft recognition posters that i was given!
I was in it for four years. in fact i ddi not leave the ATC until the same day I joined the RAF! i still lots of the aircraft recognition posters that i was given! Out of curiosity morse, which ATC squadron were you in? And what did you do in the RAF?
Out of curiosity morse, which ATC squadron were you in? And what did you do in the RAF? 498(wishaw) sqn ATC. When i joined, one of the officers was famous for having been part of guy gibson crew and requested a transfer because he would not fly with Gibson. I joined as a telegraphist but cross trained as a combat medic, forward air control and marine telgraphist. As I told OwenD, my mother was so confused that she told people that I served in the RAF, Army and Navy!
498(wishaw) sqn ATC. When i joined, one of the officers was famous for having been part of guy gibson crew and requested a transfer because he would not fly with Gibson. I joined as a telegraphist but cross trained as a combat medic, forward air control and marine telgraphist. As I told OwenD, my mother was so confused that she told people that I served in the RAF, Army and Navy! Fascinating stuff! So, did you ever find out the reason he wouldn't fly with Gibson?
Fascinating stuff! So, did you ever find out the reason he wouldn't fly with Gibson? sixty pounds of armour plating fixed to the seat of his lanc and his general attitude.
sixty pounds of armour plating fixed to the seat of his lanc and his general attitude. So was he implying the amount of armour plating was excessive? In other words, he had a yello streak? I find that hard to believe given Gibson's action during the Dams raid. He was, after all, awarded the VC for that op...
So was he implying the amount of armour plating was excessive? In other words, he had a yello streak? I find that hard to believe given Gibson's action during the Dams raid. He was, after all, awarded the VC for that op... this was after the dams raid and such a amount of armour plating was not normally fitted to pilots seats! Also Jimmy has completed a total of 35 missions ans won the DFM but Gibson treated him like a sprog
this was after the dams raid and such a amount of armour plating was not normally fitted to pilots seats! Also Jimmy has completed a total of 35 missions ans won the DFM but Gibson treated him like a sprog I have read many accounts of Gibson's aloofness and general bad attutude to subordinates. On one television interview, a former pilot described Gibson as a "rather little man with rather too high an opinion of himself". He liked being saluted a lot, apparently. Still, there's no denying his courage.
I suppose it does have something to do with the male psyche and I have never been all that much ashamed of it. War has always been one of the most interesting subjects. I figure it is no different then a mystery fan being interested in murder. There are worse subjects to be interested in. The interest in war has a lot of components and explaining it all is hard. Part of it is simply people think of it the way they think of sports and simply ignore the fact that real people get hurt. In a way it is a less harmful form of gladitorial games. I suppose one should be uneasy about that aspect but there it is and my uneasiness is limited. Perhaps I just take for granted that war is a part of human nature and it won't go away simply because we don't think about it. If one wants a defense it can go like this: to live in a settled lifestyle one must be able to defend that lifestyle against people who live in more harsh terms. The only advantage conferred by civilization is knowledge and training. And the fact that some have an interest in war helps preserve that. Which brings another aspect. War is an intellectual subject. Studying war intellectually is a perfectly valid thing to do and it is necessary that some do so. It is also a source of stories. And one of the supreme activities of man is stories. And of course we must admit that there is part of us that does like the idea of things being smashed. What to do about that I don't know. But it certainly is part of it. War is one of the few occasions when people can smash things and earn praise for it from society as a whole. So contemplating it is rather fun. Should it be so? Good question. But at worst it is a minor vice unless it really inspires you to become a serial killer which happens more in cop shows then in real life. And cop shows are by the way, another way to appeal to this instinct.
For me I suppose it is a huge respect and fascination towards the people who were willing to sacrifice their own life in the cause of freedom. That kind of bravery is beyond me. The least thing I can do is to learn about their great deeds so we will never forget just what they did so that we today can live in freedom.
For me I suppose it is a huge respect and fascination towards the people who were willing to sacrifice their own life in the cause of freedom. That kind of bravery is beyond me. The least thing I can do is to learn about their great deeds so we will never forget just what they did so that we today can live in freedom. Well said. I would certainly agree with that.
Well, for me, it was studying either Britney Spears' daily habits or WWII. I flipped a coin and the war won. I don't really know why have this fascination with the war. I have always enjoyed history in general and WWII seems to offer a motherload of informantion to satiate my desire to read. Starting out, I guess it was that certain little boy fascination of soldiers and sailors that eventually evolved into a repect and admiration for those who are willing to give of their time, effort and quite too often, their health and life, for others. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." This is from the New Testament, but I am certain that many religons make similar references. I assume that men in combat aren't thinking of me specifically at critical times, or anybody else, other than the men to his left or right, but I can't help but think that at some point, an acknowledgement of the "greater good" has to come to mind. If they are going think about me and family, even abstractly, then I will certainly offer to remember them for what they did.
