What motorcycles used by the British forces ?

Guys what bikes did we use through the war ? i am thinking of getting one to compliment my carrier (which is in desert colours) anyone able to advise what we used, and can you guys provide some pics....i am after some inspiration. my grandfather did do some DR work during the war all be it very briefly....



Cheers

Richie

 

If you're thinking of the desert, then early versions of the Norton WD16H, BSA WM20 and Matchless G3/WO (with girder forks). These early bikes were not fitted with the characteristic canvas panniers.

In Italy, Nortons were less common except with the Canadians. The British used WM20s, Ariel W/NGs and the later tele-forked Matchless G3L.

When and where are you actually thinking of ?

Best current availability of bikes and spares would be the long-serving BSA M20 but be aware that their long post-war useage means that most have received many later parts and even the late war contracts differred from the early ones - almost everything interchangeable but different.

If you embark on converting a bike back to 1940 or 1941 spec then it will be costly and time consuming.

 

I was thinking 1942 - 43 north africa into Sicily 5th div.....desert scheme which is what my carrier will be done as..... i prefere the old girder style folks to the more modern looking ones.

 

Richard, It's worth having a look at the IWM online archive. Enter the name 'Loughlin' as photographer. He was in Tunisia, Sicily and Italy and photographed quite a lot of 5 Div stuff.

First picture is a WM20 BSA from C11101. This was an early 1942 build and would originally have been finished in Khaki Green No.3 It seems to be wearing the 'Y' of 5th Division.

I'm not quite sure about the captioned officer from the Beds & Herts as the 2nd bn. was the only one in Italy and didn't arrive until early 1944. Perhaps he had been seconded ?



"A motorcycle despatch rider hands a message to an officer of the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment on the Isernia front, 20 November 1943."

A slightly later picture shows an Ariel W/NG in the same theatre. All things being equal, an Ariel is likely to be harder to find and more expensive but many riders reckon it to have been the best of the bunch.



"A motorcycle despatch rider watches as the message he has brought to 8th Indian Division HQ is handed to the GOC, Major General D Russell, by his ADC, Captain D A Sconce, 30 January-3 February 1944."

There's a rather nice looking WM20 on ebay at the moment. Based on what some right old dogs have been fetching lately, it will be a bargain if it sells for less than £5000.

1940 BSA WMD 20, EX. MILITARY, ORIGINAL SPEC. on eBay (end time 18-Oct-10 18:41:15 BST)

 

Corr that is gorgeous.....i take it the panniers are a later mod ? whilst looking on dutch lion i noticed many of the bikes have the brake and clutch levers backwards ie they clamp onto the ends of the bars with the levers facing towards the head stock rather than what we would normally see.... i really need to do some research i would hate to buy something totally miles off the real deal (so to speak) i really like the look of the Tiz Am Sloper (copy of the BSA) glad i asked first about what would have been present could have ended up with something totally wrong.....

 

Panniers began to appear on new bikes during 1942. The DME instructions relating to retro fitting were dated March 1942 for Nortons, May 1942 for BSAs and June 1942 for Ariels but quite how this tied in with production line changes is difficult to ascertain. However it's clear that in some theatres there were more important things to do. A bike in NW Europe during 1944 should have them but early in the Italian campaign, probably more often not.

The eBay bike has a post-war rebuild plate and that is common to many bikes that stayed in service. If you want to portray 1943 then it would be necessary to remove some later aspects, even though they may be part of the machine's history.

The 'inverted' levers that you're describing disappeared on British motorcycles during the early 1930s and all the wartime types had conventional controls and foot gear change. Some German and french bikes kept the early levers. That Russian BSA copy is an interesting thing but not for WW2 portrayal in Italy.

I don't know what sort of bikes you're used to but controls on a wartime WD bike feel pretty 'normal' to me. There is a manual advance/ retard to deal with plus a valve lifter for starting but once you're under way, not a lot to fiddle with. Gear change on the right and often 'upside down' compared with modern though.

There is avery useful forum and website for M20s that deals with all WD bikes. Well worth a look if you're intending to buy.

http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3155626639&frmid=16&msgid=0

 

Richie

Have you seen this thread ?
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-technology-equipment/19206-ww2-motorcycles-only.html

I posted this pic on comment #211

There was also another earlier thread that I will try & dig up

Blimey !....... found it !
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-technology-equipment/11491-can-anyone-identify-motorbyke.html

Ron

 

Cool....nice bike there Ron !