Was Queen Mary used as troopship 8-Oct-1942?

RMS Queen Mary was damaged in a collision with HMS Curacoa on 2-Oct-1942 in the Western Approaches north of the Irish coast. She was temporarily repaired (in the Clyde?) before returning across the Atlantic from Gourock to Boston for permanent repair on 8-Oct-1942. Was this translantic crossing used to carry troops?

 

Several threads on this including:
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/remembering-today/48442-remembering-today-2-10-42-stanley-johnson-hms-curacoa.html

 

Yes Mike; much information about the collision with the Curacoa but the question was did the Queen Mary carry troops when she sailed to Boston for repair or did she sail with crew only? Afterall she had been damaged and presumably sailing at a reduced speed which might have rendered her vulnerable to U-boat attack.

 

Queen Mary - Specific Crossing Information - 1942
Queen Mary - Record of Wartime Cruises - 1942

Interesting note on this website:
This is a complete list of World War II cruises of the RMS Queen Mary, which Steve Harding has generously authorized me to copy to this web page from his excellent photo-filled book Gray Ghost: The RMS Queen Mary at War .
Steve Harding notes that "those crossings that do not have entries for the numbers of troops and passengers did, in fact, carry both: Many of the records of the QM's earlier wartime voyages were lost or destroyed in the years just after the war, so we're unsure of the exact numbers."


Perhaps further information has shown up but it appears the precise answer may be lost in the mists of time.

Cheers
Mark

 

Ah, sorry, misunderstood the question.
First thought is that the QM was mainly used to transport troops from US to UK rather than the other way round at this time. I have to go out shortly but will see what I can find on return.

 

Sadly no further information in 'Queen Mary and the cruiser'.
Apparently the approximately 20 foot of crushing to the stem casting and bows was temporarily repaired on the Clyde by the addition of 'several tons of cement'. The full repair was carried out in Boston but there is no information about a cargo carried from Glasgow to Boston.
I would be interested to hear if you can find anything more about this voyage.

Regards,

Mike

 

I really enjoyed this book

Warrior Queens: Daniel Allen Butler: 9780811716451: Amazon.com: Books

As an aside to the forum members, my mother has very clear memories of seeing the Normandie laying on her side in the Hudson after the capsizing.

Dave

 

Attached (I hope) is part of the service record card of an airman who sailed to Canada, so he claimed, on the Queen Mary in October 1942 and returned on the same ship in November 1943. I doubted his claim because I understood that the Queen Mary had been damaged in October 1942 and had to sail to Boston for repair. It seems his claims might be true if the damaged Queen Mary had carried troops, in this case airmen for aircrew training in Canada, as it travelled from Scotland to America.

 

According to her movement records she effected temporary repairs at Greenock. from 3/Oct/1942 and sailed from the Clyde 7/Oct/1942.
She arrived in Boston 14/Oct/1942 for drydocking sailed 4/Nov/1942 arrived New York 5/Nov/1942 presumably for further damage repair and alterations to her hospital accommodation and sailed for the Clyde 8/Dec/1942.
Roger

 

You must remember that a thread title that asks if the late Queen Mary was used as a troopship rings strange bells to oldies like me who were brought up as kids to hold her in utmost esteem

Wikipedia puts the matter straight:

HMS Queen Mary, a battlecruiser of the Royal Navy launched in 1912 and sunk at the Battle of Jutland in 1916
TS Queen Mary, a Clyde Steamer launched in 1933, now retired and stored in Tilbury Docks, London, UK
RMS Queen Mary, a Cunard Line ocean liner launched in 1934, now retired as a hotel in Long Beach, California, USA
RMS Queen Mary 2, a Cunard ocean liner that entered service in 2003

Ron

 

Well done Roger. Your date of QM sailing on 7 Oct 1942 exactly matches the date in the airman's service record (see my attachment). Do you have any official referencable document for the date of sailing please? Then all I need to know is if the ship's manifest shows she was carrying troops, specifically RAF airmen en route to flying training as part of the BCATP.
David

 

Hello David,
The information came from TNA piece reference MT40/148
I have attached the relevent pages.
I doubt you will find a manifest due to security considerations.
Most online records give her date of sailing as the 8/Oct/1942. The only certain way to find the correct and accurate, time and date of sailing is to look at the vessels logbook.
On 7/Nov/1940 the Admiralty issued the Admiralty Merchant Shipping Instruction AMSI 221
this forbade Merchant Navy masters entering this kind of information in the logbook. In my experience, in the best traditions of the MN this instuction was by and large ignored.
However in the majority of cases I have looked at, Troopships, again because of security I guess, did follow the Admiralty instruction.
The vessels Movement Card can be downloaded from TNA documents online and this may give a different sailing time.
To some extent wether it was 7/Oct/1942or 8/Oct/1942 is of little consequence as in all probability the date entered on your mans service record would be the date of his embarkation rather than the sailing date.

 

Many thanks for the sailing documents Roger. I shall conclude that the airman did indeed sail on the Queen Mary even in its damaged condition and perhaps travelling at less than its maximum speed. David

 

Roger,
I appreciate the reference for the Queen Mary sailing of 7-Oct-42. Could you also provide a copy of the page for 1943 please which would confirm the sailing date of the same airman’s return to the UK when it seemed he sailed from New York to Gourock departing on the 24-Oct-43 and arriving on 2-Nov-43. Could you also please provide the title page of the document which might give an indication of the source. I am unfamiliar with the term TNA. What is it please? I have looked for movement cards and TNA online and can find nothing. Do you have a link please?
Thank you, David

 

David,
TNA is the National Archives at Kew:
The National Archives

 

Hello David
Sorry for the shorthand. TNA The National Archive at Kew London. Attached Movements of Queen Mary 1943 As you can see she sailed on the 27/Oct/1943 Like before the date on his service record would be the date of embarkation. At least QUEEN MARY was in New York on that date. Given date of arrival I think it is certain your man was on board.
Link to movement cards at TNA
Merchant shipping movement cards 1939-1945 | The National Archives
Piece reference MT40/148
The National Archives | Search results:mt40/148

Roger

 

I dont know if these will be of interest but a couple of pictures of HMT Queen Mary taken in 1942, followed by one showing damge received after collision with Curacoa.

 

Thanks for those Cally, my Grandfather was on Curacoa, thankfully well before the collision and before her conversion to AA Cruiser.

 

Thanks for those Cally, my Grandfather was on Curacoa, thankfully well before the collision and before her conversion to AA Cruiser.

Always a pleasure Mike. I dont know if you have asked me before but I have many pictures of Curacoa before and after her conversion to an AA cruiser.

 

Sadly no further information in 'Queen Mary and the cruiser'.
Apparently the approximately 20 foot of crushing to the stem casting and bows was temporarily repaired on the Clyde by the addition of 'several tons of cement'. The full repair was carried out in Boston but there is no information about a cargo carried from Glasgow to Boston.
I would be interested to hear if you can find anything more about this voyage.

Regards,

Mike
==============================================
Almostcertainly!

Space was at a premium- as was fuel oil. \i can't imagine a \wasted run!~

She may have carried POW's.& the record wouldhave been kept confidential..
Or goods notneeded in Britian- such as a load of Frozen Haggis...