Wartime Myths (and hopefully explanations!)

It was carried out "incorrectly" because it was directing the Luftwaffe away from the wrong town. The British had intercepted a list of target codenames for the 1941 blitz, and identified only half of them. They incorrectly interpreted the codename for that night's raid...and the radio transmitters that laid a false trail curving away from the German beam....they didn't actually "bend" it, they laid their own starting at a point along the German one and laid it out in a slowwww curve along a line of transmitter trucks away from the target and over a STARFISH site ...were in entirely the wrong place. When the Germans began transmitting that night it looked as if they'd correctly identified the target....then the beams began to swing away...! And came to rest over Coventry instead. It was too much work and would have taken too long to attempt to intercept the German beam on its new heading and precisely re-position the transmitter trucks dozens of miles from where they were.

 

Interesting to hear, on the Andrew Marr show today, a repeat of the myth of the Coventry raid being allowed to go ahead to protect the Enigma breaks. Marr mentioned this in discussion with Benedict Cumberbatch about his role as Alan Turing in the upcoming film.

'610

 

56) all western allied troops acted pristine and impeccable to the local liberated and occupied civilians and their household.
ahum....

 

The greatest myth of all* is that the Hawker Typhoon was no good as a fighter and only had value as a ground attack aircraft.

In 1943 against the tip-and-run raiders coming in at low level over the Channel the Typhoon was the best thing in the air; it was faster and could outturn the Fw190A-5 and A-8s which the Spitfires could not catch.

London Gazette, one example:

23 February 1943 - Flying Officer John Robert Baldwin (122337) Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve, No. 609 Squadron is awarded a Distinguished Flying Cross:

This officer has participated in numerous sorties, invariably displaying great courage and operational efficiency. This was amply demonstrated during a sortie one day in January, 1943, when he attacked a formation of three enemy aircraft. In his first attack, Flying Officer Baldwin shot down the leading aircraft of the hostile formation. Following this success he destroyed another of the formation before his own aircraft was hit in one of the wings. When the third enemy fighter attempted to attack from the rear, Flying Officer Baldwin out-manoeuvred the attacker and shot it down. On another occasion, during a sortie over Belgium, he damaged four locomotives.

*Maybe not the greatest myth of all but it does annoy me!

 

Snapper,

I think the answer is here 'raiders coming in at low level'. The Typhoon was fast at low level but not at altitude. Anyway it was a very useful ground attack aircraft. Horses for courses as they used to say.

Mike

 

57 The Soviet Army was a horde, which was incapable of complex Strategic Offensives and which overwhelmed the Superior German Forces through sheer weight of numbers.

 

Absolutely Trux, which was where the bulk of the air war was happening in terms of attacks on GB by the time they came into service, radar and the increase in numbers of pilots and aircraft making anything other than low-level small-scale raiding too expensive in terms of loss. But they were never designed for high-level interception as there was no need, the Spitfires were admirably suited up there yet the 'clipped, cropped clapped' versions were not and didn't do so well againstthe 190s and 109F's.

 

Tank units were issued one Firefly each, which the Germans targeted.
Looks more like 50/50 to me.

Sherman Firefly - the tank and how best to use it etc

 

The thing that affected the Typhoon's original career as a fighter was a structural weakness in the rear fuselage nevertheless it could catch an FW 190 and had to be used. By the time it was fixed the Tempest and later model Spits were becoming available so as has been said above - horses for courses and it was used for fighter bomber duties. Much more close support rather than pure ground attack

 

re carrots
Back even before the war started it was realised that Britain would have to become much less reliant on food imports and would have to change the pattern of domestic agriculture away from animal husbandry to arable farming, This was not only to avoid being starved by a U boat blockade but because ships carrying say grain from Canada would not be available to carry munitions from the USA. Even after the Battle of the Atlantic was won shipping was still needed to build up resources in advance of an Allied invasion of Europe and was not available for food. In 1938 the majority of agricultural land was used to raise animals and large amounts of grain was being imported for both bread and animal feed.

Massive campaigns were initiated to plough up pasture land and until the end of 1942 tractor imports and production were given a priority almost equal to tanks. It is often not realised just how much early lease lend was for agricultural machinery. By 1944 meat production had dropped by a third and much more land was under arable production than used for animals. Grain imports had almost ceased. Not all agricultural land is suitable for grain and the production of potatoes and beet had increased but these also have their own preferences - for example beet and claggy heavy soil. Carrots do best in light sandy well drained soil and because Britain has some areas with lots of this a lot of carrots were grown.

Government research in WW1 had shown just how difficult it was to change British dietary habits. People would not eat spuds if bread was available. Bread was never rationed in WW2 Britain. However surplus spuds could be turned into animal food or even into flour and sneaked into bread. The same was not true of carrots which were traditionally seen as something to accompany meat and not replace it ("boiled beef and carrots"). Campaigns were established to encourage the consumption of carrots.

As part of my dissertation research into war on the rural home front I've read every copy of my local paper from early 1938 to the end of 1945. There are columns, syndicated nationally, for housewives and many many receipies for dishes based on carrots. Whilst there is a general emphasis on the healthiness of carrots there is no particular emphasis on eyesight. Many receipts are for things like carrot cake as a means of bringing some sweetness to a land on sugar rationing. I can remember as a lad in the post war forties and early fifties being told that eating up my carrots would be good for my eyes but I can find no war time evidence of such talk. I wonder if the source was on the silver screen - like Popeye and spinach. Was Bugs Bunny ever portrayed as a fighter pilot?

 

Many Ministry of Food posters and leaflets refer to carrots being good for the eyes and helping you to see in the blackout. I think it was more to do with getting people to eat carrots which were easily grown, rather than actual medical fact.

Tim

 

Carrots enhancing pilot eyesight was merely a ruse set up for the Germans to believe, rather than Luftwaffe losses being due to the introduction of A.I radar on RAF night fighters.

The first A.I radar platform was the Defiant which received its gear in the autumn of 1940 after it had been withdraw from front line day fighter operations.As a stop gap night fighter with A.I, it achieved the highest number of kills/interception than any other night fighter type during 1940/1941.

Both British and German public would not be aware of this advancing electronic technology and would easily accept that the carrot diet had improved pilot eyesight in the dark, sufficient to gain advantage over enemy night bomber pilots....a mere piece of British propaganda......the emergence of Catseyes Cunningham.

 

I didn't think it was a myth that early on in the campaign in NWE they only had 1/troop and it increased to 2/troop later.

I just received Peter Brown's new Armor Photohistory book on the Firefly and he provides tank states charts at different times in the war. In June '44 for instance 7th and 11th Armoured Divisions, Guards Armoured Division, and 4th Canadian Armoured Division had 36 Fireflies (per division) against 225 other tanks. In December '44 he has numbers of 67, 74, 56, and 101 Fireflies respectively.

edit: although I think these figures are mentioned in the other thread...

 

Harry,
Is there any evidence that carrots enhancing pilot eyesight was actually published as propaganda? All I have ever been able to find is that eating carrots helped you see in the blackout. I have read that this myth just appeared, rather than being published, and that the Air Ministry merely went along with it.

Tim

 

Tim,

I think it was just one of those myths which was allowed to run by the Air Ministry...they never denied it and were silent on the matter.From time to time I have seen it mentioned in night fighter anecdotal accounts....the more people hold conversions about it promoted the propagation of the myth.

John Cunningham promoted the myth with his successes while piloting the Beaufighter using the latest AI gear at the time, the AI Mark 1V

 

Sorry but this is nonsense. The Germans were well aware of radar and also were themselves attempting to develop Infra Red detection systems and would have considered carrots laughable. The first Radar AI sets were installed in Blenheim F1s of six squadrons in May 1940 and the first victory was scored by one in July 1940 when a Do17z was shot down off Bognor Regis

 

My local advisory committee minuted long lists of tractors and those who made use of them. And very poor husbandry of land by those both of high and low estate.
Failure of bean crops, lots of ditching and "mole" drainage schemes, large fox populations. Wet spring in 1942. And lots of people in cars attending Newmarket races clogging the local roads. Didn't know there was a war on.

Doesn't make "sense", the war.

 

Post #36 Reply.

Indeed the Blenheim did receive airborne radar in the summer of 1940,the first success being on 2/3 July 1940.They did operate in the Blitz of 1940/1941 but the Defiant returned the highest kill/interception of any night fighter in 1940/1941.This was then at a time when interim aircraft were utilised as night fighters while the Beaufighter was being worked up as the ideal choice of a night fighter of quality.(Good account of that from Guy Gibson's account of his time with No 29 Squadron at Wellingore and West Malling)

If you look into the development of radar,it will be apparent that the Germans lagged behind the British.Although German radar development was very promising in its early stages,it was quickly overtaken by Allied technology,chiefly the British.Hitler had a distrust of scientists and would only allow a lead in year for a project to return success.

For instance in 1940,German intelligence had not recognised the CHH system which had an detrimental affect in their strategic attitude during the Battle of Britain.As late as June 1940,they thought that the CHH towers were coastal radio masts They were ignorant of the magnetron and when they got hold of the H2S gear in a downed Stirling over Rotterdam in early 1943,it took them 6 months to understand it fully........when they developed their own magnetron,the LMS 10,it was a version of the British CV 64.

I think you ought to conduct a little research on radar development of both sides before you herald nonsense.

Louis Brown's publication,"A Radar History of World War 11" gives quality technical detail. Bernard Lovell's publication "Echoes of War" is a jewel especially for those were involved with the H2S bombing radar versions.

The carrot myth,I wonder why John Cunningham was nicknamed Cat's Eyes Cunningham...certainly a myth...a myth that was allowed to flow.I would not think it would be known by the German public but certainly it was allowed to propagate freely in Britain.

 

Radar fitted squadrons in May 1940 were nos. 23, 25, 29, 600, 604. During the Blitz the RAF's AI radar equipped aircraft consisted of Blenheim Fs, Beaufighters and Douglas Havocs. Defiant night fighters carried no radar at this time. Hurricanes and Defiants used for night operations were known as cats eye fighters. Defiants were not fitted with radar until Autumn 1941. A small screen was fitted in the pilot's cockpit - a similar system was successfully trialled in the Mosquito and was a sort of early heads up for the pilot. However a decision was taken to pull single engined types off night interception duties in early 1942 and these sets were instead developed into tail gunner sets for Bomber Command

see Ian White. A short history of air intercept radar and the British Night Fighter Part 1 1936 - 1945
Aeroflight 26 June 2016 Boulton Paul Defiant Aircraft profile.

Note attempts were made to use the Mk IV set on the Defiant II in Sept 1940 but operational trials proved a failure see History of Madras Presidency Squadron (the most successful Defiant squadron)