War Grave Belgium: Joseph FAIL, 2 LINCOLNSHIRE, DENDERWINDEKE COMMUNAL CEMETERY

I only have complete Orbats for El-Alamein and Normandy.

This might help:

8,9 and 233 Field Ambulances were in 3 Div during Operation Overlord. I would guess there's a good possibility they were the same in 1940.

 

McNish's Iron Division lists 7, 8 & 9 Fd Ambs in 1939 (matching the Bdes).
2 LINCOLN were in 9 Bde so I'd be inclined to start with 9 Fd Amb and work backwards.

 

I've got some new info.

My mate has visited an old veteran in Denderwindeke.

He knows about an UK soldier who has died in a field hospital near Denderwindeke. According him, the soldier was burried in Denderwindeke.

The field hospital is most intresting. It would have been on 'Congoberg' in Vollezele.
More specific detail we don't have at this time.

 

HZA
it's going well keep us informed of your quest, and enjoy your beer.

 

Hi Hza

You should have received all the copies of the pages I e-mailed you. Hope they willl be of use to you.

Regards - Rob

 

About the field hospital, we know where a tent was set up. Should that have been deschribed in some yournal of the field ambulances?

We are preparing to go to the place for a visit with the person who has given us the info.

 

Peter, the only answer is that it might be mentioned in the war diaries. Some were written up at the time and are very detailed. Others were lost and re-written afterwards. It may also be that he was left in the hands of medical services other than the Field Ambulance attached to his own brigade.

A lot of this research leads to dead-ends but I probably don't need to tell you that !

A photo of the site and some witness recollections would be very nice to see here.

 

Hello,

A few days have been passed, we have some new hints!
There are many contacts made and we have some things in advance. Our local county council is willing to get into their archives.

We have talked to some older people in the denderwindeke region to get some info, but it is more about an airplane crash in 40 and 44. That can the people remember, but all the rest is primitive. A version that is been told local in Denderwindeke, is that Joseph has been shot at the road to Ninove and died instantly. That doesn't match our official info. Some other stuff are a V1 bomb that has hit a field, we have searched for the crater, and indeed found it! Some other views where at a farm where the weathercock was made of the metal from the B-24 that has crashed in Boterdael - Denderwindeke.

Bye the internet are many contacts made with people who have mostly general info of the 2nd lincolns, but in some details we can reconstruct the movement of the 16/17 may 1940.

We assume that Joseph did got hit in Louvain, so we are making a reconstruction how the 2nd lincolns went to Louvain, and got out. Also the medical discipline we have got a new lead - right from the county council of Lincolnshire.
I paste the story :
The information that I have found in the records is that he joined the army on 27th March 1928 in Sunderland, Durham. He had formerly been in the Durham Light Infantry (Territorial Army). His occupation was a Coal Miner.

The 17th of May 1940 was of course in the days leading up to the evacuation of Dunkirk. The 2nd Battalion seem to have been in Louvain on 16th May 1940 but were suffering increased shelling. They were given orders to withdraw to the River Dendre. They apparently marched back without any particular incidents but the stretcher bearers did transport a badly wounded man on a hand truck for the whole journey and got him to hospital at Brussels where he then died. This man isn't named but in the absence of any incidents and because he dies of wounds rather than killed in action I wonder if it is Joseph?

That's it for the moment, we are making progress in our project, the hardest thing for us is to relocate some family of Jospeph. We tried the Sunderland echo paper, but that was no succes. Anyone an other idea?

Best regards
Peter Deneve

 

This is his birth information. Will look at details of his stepfather to see if he had any half brothers or sisters.

Name: Joseph Fail
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Sunderland
County: Durham, Tyne and Wear
Volume: 10a
Page: 670

 

Joseph Fail's Mother Elizabeth, married Joseph Potts before he was 3 years old in 1912 in Sunderland.

Looks like he had a Half Sister born in 1914.

Name: Gladys Potts
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Fail
District: Sunderland
County: Durham, Tyne and Wear
Volume: 10a
Page: 1449

 

Amazingly, I found a further 7 Potts born to a Mother with the Maiden name of Fail. It's a distinct possibility that Joseph Fail may have been born out of wedlock.

She would have had the children by the age of around 40 years of age. The extra 7 names are:-

Thomas E Potts - 1914
Greta Potts - 1919
John J Potts - 1921
John Potts - 1923
Elsie Potts - 1925
Frederick Potts - 1928
Elizabeth Potts - 1930.

Could be Peter that you are looking for the Fail family and should be looking for the Potts family.

 

Thanks Rob for your research

How have you got acces to such info?

I'm gonna search a cool place today, it will be a 37° here :p

Regards

Peter

 

Hi Peter

Only 37.

I have a basic level subscription to the Ancestry website. LIke a lot of websites, they only allow you so much information.

Regards - Rob

 

Here is the info from the 1911 census. It would appear that he was the iligiamate child of Lizzie, but was brought up by his granparents as there own son. In my research I have come across a number of instances like this one.

1911 census - household transcription
Person: FAIL, Joseph
Address: 21 So Johnson St Sunderland

Name, Relation, Condition/Yrs married, Sex, Age, Birth Year, Occupation, Where Born
FAIL, Joseph Father Married M 42 1869 Fardge Labourer Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Annie Wife Married 21 years F 40 1871 Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Lizzie Daughter Single F 20 1891 Factory Girl Ropery Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Amy Daughter Single F 18 1893 Factory Girl Ropery Sunderland Durham
FAIL, John Son Single M 12 1899 Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Fanny Son Single M 8 1903 Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Mary Daughter Single F 5 1906 Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Bridget Daughter Single F 3 1908 Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Joseph Son Single M 2 1909 Sunderland Durham
FAIL, Terance Son Single M 0 (7 MONTHS) 1911 Sunderland Durham


Terence, the youngest son died in 1973 in Romsey in Hampshire, and if you watch this space, I MAY be able to put you in contact with a member of his family through the ancestry website


I have emailed Jospeh fail's great grand daughter, so will see what comes back

 

Nice one Phil.

So my hunch about Joseph being born out of wedlock could be true. Does my info regarding the Potts family look correct. I started with the information from the CWGC database with Joseph Potts being shown as his stepfather.

Be great if you can get a response from the relative.

Regards - Rob

 

Fantastic job guys! What in the name should I do without such a medium ..

Altough we have great interest in the story of Joseph, the other goal is to bring up some attention to the younger people so they don't forget what tragedies have passed many years ago.

Respect

Peter

 

Fantastic job guys! What in the name should I do without such a medium ..

Altough we have great interest in the story of Joseph, the other goal is to bring up some attention to the younger people so they don't forget what tragedies have passed many years ago.

Respect

Peter

Peter, Louise, who is Joseph's great grand daughter has been in touch, and is going to register with the site, so hopefully with the help of the two of Josephs half siblings who are still alive, she will be able to provide some more info

P

 

With thanks to Mick McCann of British War Graves.

 

We have written a basic family tree as we assume a basic setup.

Please correct us where that we made a fault.

Best regards,

Peter & Eric

The picture of the family tree will be put back when we have the correct data

 

Some other views where at a farm where the weathercock was made of the metal from the B-24 that has crashed in Boterdael - Denderwindeke.



See photo for the cock - metal from a B24