Wading Sherman tanks...

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Ramiles, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Driving a Sherman tank on the seafloor or riverbed using a snorkel

    A place to post some clips, pics and links to info. on wading Sherman tanks...

    I've seen some things variously dotted about online: Wading Sherman tanks - Google Search

    No mention here though at the mo. of the wading Sherman tanks: Deep wading - Wikipedia

    More to add in post edit etc ;-)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    A few clips of wading Shermans I have seen so far...



    Ref. says: "The Sherman tanks with the extended exhaust pipes for the amphibious landing, that could have made a difference on Omaha beach on june 6th 1944 are landing here in an exercise on the British coast during operation Tiger. The landing at Slapton sands."



    Ref. says "U.S. and British tanks specially modified for deep-water wading for D-Day landings. WWII video filmed in the U.K. during D-Day preparations in 1944."

    The IWM appears to have some film of wading Shermans (not currently viewable online), although the descriptions of what the film contains can be read: IWM Deep wading shermans - Google Search

    ----- x -----

     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Some images: Wading Sherman tanks - Google Search

    There's a pic here: Sherman wading tank - D-Day tanks

    [​IMG]

    "An M4 Sherman wading tank is seen mired in the mud on a a Normandy invasion beach. Note the raised air intakes for amphibious use. Deep wading gear permitted a tank to drive partially underwater on the sea floor rather than swim."

    Presumably recoverable? depending on subsequent tides etc.

    I don't think I heard of any similar examples of 24th Lancers Shermans getting mired, though there is a ref. to a lost Sherman on the beach in NHL, I'm not even sure what percentage of the 24th L's Shermans were adapted to be wading tanks.

    Nb. There's a picture on p63 of NHL of a painting by Montague Dawson showing:
    "Waterproofing and stowing Shermans, Milford-on-Sea, Hampshire, April 1944"

    Re. Montague Dawson - Wikipedia
    Has..."in the 1930s, he moved to Milford-Upon-Sea in Hampshire, living there for many years." & "During the Second World War, he was employed as a war artist"
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Coincidentally, Bovington tweeted this just now.
    Burma 44-45. M4a4 Dozer
    Sort of illustrates that wading ability was quite good 'as is' (assuming of course something hasn't already gone terribly wrong!).
    DH01o97WsAAnIWr.jpg
     
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  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Yes, I've seen some pictures of Shermans without the snorkels wading through some quite deep rivers. I was glancing though the online snapshot of this recently:

    US Amphibious Tanks of World War II
    By Steven J. Zaloga

    US Amphibious Tanks of World War II

    And as well as some nice pictures in there, there's some detail about the lessons learned through the development of the wading tanks about the need for extensive interior waterproofing including the electrical systems etc. and this helping the basic reliability of the Sherman tank.
     
  6. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    If something hasn't gone terribly wrong there is a very good chance it's about to: the M4A4 was powered by the Chrysler Multibank petrol engine so no tolerance of submerged running. Not sure of the wading depth of the M4A4 but it's looking close......
     
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There is this "speculative" artwork showing the kit "in potential use"... but not exactly getting wet. ;-)
    [​IMG]
    Ps. For the Sherman tanks in 1943 with no waterproofing, and no deep wading trunks:.
    No wading kits | The Sherman Tank Site

    Has...

    November 20-23rd 1943: The first Marine use of the Sherman was on Tarawa. The tanks were M4A2 small hatch tanks, these tanks were issued with no training, and the crews of the I Marine Amphibious Corps Tanks Battalion had sixty days in the states to learn how to use their tanks. Then the island they ended up pre-landing had no place for them to drive the tanks to train on them. So they went into combat with no real training with the Marines they were going to fight with. The tanks had no waterproofing, and no deep wading trunks, and could only drive through 40 inches of water. They also had the same problem the Army had in Europe, the tanks radios were not on the same frequency as the infantry units below the battalion level. They could talk to aircraft though. They decided they would only need one company of medium tanks, the rest of the battalion would be made up of M3A1 lights. This single mixed battalion would be the only Tanks to support the assault.

     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    These are the bits about the wading tanks that I've picked out from gd's (Tank commander of the 2nd Tank of 1st Troop of C squadron - 24th Lancers) later account.

    At least in training they took them quite deep with "just six inches of the turret top to be seen above the sea for most of the time" and on the Normandy beaches I think it looks like they had "about a foot to spare":

    "We were taken to see a tank go under water. It was like a big sheep dip, the tank went gently down the slope, the water rose up until it was almost covered about 12 inches from the top of the turret, then it gently pulled out again. There were talks and lectures for those trained to do the work on their own tanks and then back to our unit. They gave me two men and a small garage with two petrol pumps on the forecourt, empty. My own tank, lots of tins filled with glue and asbestos grease, stuff to seal off the 75mm gun and the co-ax, huge tin scoops to fit to the rear to carry the exhaust away and instruction typed on how it must be done. In the morning we were in about 9am we came out for lunch and some air and back in again until evening. In a week we had it done and this was very secret stuff of course, but we wanted to know if it would leak, so I went to see the C.O. ...

    ...at 6am Sunday we drove the tank out, went along the coast about ½ a mile. We knew the spot we wanted, the sea seemed right, we hadn’t thought about the tide. Every man in the crew knew his job, watch for leaks, take everything calmly and get out quick if it floods. It was quite a thrill taking that thing into the sea. We stayed in about five minutes, there was just six inches of the turret top to be seen above the sea for most of the time and there was only one tiny leak. Satisfied we pulled out and went back to the garage. Later in the day I had to report to the C.O. of course and he was pleased but disappointed at not being there.

    So I thought everything was fine until going to the local for a pint that evening. A lady I’d seen there many times came up and asked if she could speak to me. “I was awake this morning” she says “and heard a tank pass. I dressed quickly and followed, laid in the grass and I watched from the cliff top. I was frightened at what I saw.” She said that she had seen no one else around. I then told her she had seen more than was good for her, that I wasn’t going to explain it, apparently that wasn’t the problem. She knew there were men inside and she thought they must be drowned. I put her mind at rest and told her to forget all about it and never to speak to anyone about it, not even me."

    Then on to Normandy:

    "With the first dawn streaks we knew the lid would be off, so all eyes were watching and soon we knew we were close, the tide turned bringing with it all manner of stuff floating by, one lot of sailors hats came by which didn’t do anything to cheer us, and yet they wouldn’t be wearing them and there were too many in a bunch. Then we saw our beach, there was no mistaking that tall house. We were reserve regiment so there was no rush to get us off. Battleships came up, turned around and started to fire over us, a troopship gently eased in, they took a rope to the shore and the men from the ship dropped into the water and waded ashore and walked away in single file up over the hill. When it was our turn our ship turned and slowly backed towards the shore and dropped the ramp. This was the moment of truth alright, if the sealing had gone they’d quickly fill with water, if there was a hole between ship and shore water would go in through the top where the tank commander was perched. So all crews were aboard except the tank commanders and we were clustered around the ramp watching Eric Hanson drop in, when he leveled he had a foot to spare and there was one big scamper back to our tanks. We were nose to tail going off and were very happy to get moving again. We quickly dropped off the exhaust chute in the field already designated, blew off the gun covers with the small explosive fixed around it, these were electrically exploded by the driver. As I said we were reserve regiment so we weren’t pushed in yet. We hadn’t seen any enemy so we knew there wasn’t any panic about so pulling into a hedge I told the crew to get out and feel if French soil was different to English. I had a bottle of Whiskey and a glass and had just poured a good stiff one when from not far away a Spandau opened up, you never saw such a rush to get back inside no I didn’t spill the whiskey, I drank it.

    Before moving away I did manage to go to the big gun site, it didn’t seem as if it had been fired. The underground offices were well worth a visit.

    We then moved slowly inland. We were given a few places to check, a very big electrical station, there didn’t seem to be anybody about. There was some sniping from the odd German left behind but not much."

    Ps... Olive-Drab.com

    "Test of the deep wading kit off the English coast:"

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  9. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There's a 1943 version of the Sherman wading equipment to be seen in various pictures here: Thoughts and help in possibly identifying the Regiment

    i.e. "The crew of a Sherman tank fitted with deep wading equipment enjoy an evening meal beside their vehicle, 15 October 1943."

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    Here is a report by the Director REME about preparations for wading.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Not a wading tank as such, but I saw this recently in a history of Oxfordshire during WW2.

    Sherman.jpg

    Prior to D-Day there were a lot of American troops training nearby (to Burford) and using the bridge with their tanks and apparently, this Sherman, during an exercise, fell off Burford bridge in Oxfordshire into the river Windrush. It was eventually dragged out through someone's garden.

    However, even if it had been a wading tank, I guess, it might still have been stuck. ;-)

    Given the D-Day training though, I suppose it could have been destined to be converted/used into/as a wading tank?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
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  12. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  13. Delta Tank

    Delta Tank Member

    To All,

    There were wading tanks at both American beaches. At Omaha each battalion, 741st supporting the 16th Infantry Regiment and the 743d supporting the 116th Infantry Regiment each had a tank company (16 tanks) equipped for wading. IIRC each battalion also had 8 Dozer tanks and 4 reserve tanks. Later that afternoon two more tank battalions landed at Omaha Beach for a total of 4 tank battalions.

    A post from Richard Anderson on Axis History Forum:
    “To be precise, five DD tanks of B Company, 741st Tank Battalion, six tank dozers, and 12 wading tanks of A Company landed in the 16th Infantry sector by 0800; all 16 of C Company's DD tanks were lost in the run in. Of those 23 landed, four of the DD tanks, four of the dozers, and all 12 wading tanks were swamped, disabled, or knocked out by the end of the day. Four reserve wading tanks were landed later in the day, giving the battalion five tanks and two dozers operational.

    The 743d Tank Battalion was more fortunate. All 16 DD tanks of C Company landed directly from its LCT and only one was disabled at the sea wall. B Company also landed all 16 of its successfully, but lost nine during the day. A Company successfully landed 13 wading tanks and six dozers out of 16 and 8 respectively. The battalion also landed its four reserve wading tanks later in the day so managed to get 55 ashore, but by the end of the day only had 37 DD and wading tanks and one dozer operational.

    So by 0800, the two battalions had put 74 tanks ashore, with 8 more later in the day, but ended the day with just 45 operational. Thus, 37 were lost after landing, but many were to swamping, tracking in the shingle, or other mechanical causes. Perhaps half were knocked out by German gunfire.”

    Mike
     
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  14. Jonathan Falconer

    Jonathan Falconer New Member

    Hello Ramiles, I'd like to quote the extract you've reproduced above in a forthcoming book. Do you have a full reference for the source, please, or is it from your own personal archive? Any help/guidance much appreciated! Thank you. Jonathan
     
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