Not surprisingly there seems to be a lot of confusion about the whole battle but Wittman’s initial attack (up to the point he was engaged by Lockwood’s Firefly, retreated and was disabled by Sgt Bray’s 6 Pounder) lasted for ‘under a quarter of an hour. In that time Wittman’s personal tally had been seven Cruiser/medium tanks (including one Firefly), three Stuart light tanks, one Sherman OP, nine half-tracks, four carriers and two anti-tank guns. On top of this were at least a further three Cruiser tanks of A Squadron, knocked out by his other tanks up at Point 213. Others were stranded, some minus crews, with the same Tigers still ready to pounce on them.’ From ­George Forty’s ‘Battle Zone Normandy Villers Bocage’ (Sutton Publishing, ISBN 0-7509-3012-8). Wittman’s participation in later action on the 13th June seems in some doubt and may have been exaggerated by German propaganda. He and his crew returned to Panzer Lehr Div HQ at Chateau d’Orbois on foot in the afternoon and Wittman got a lift back to Pt 213 to brief a strong force of Panzergrenadiers and 1st Company of Abteilung 101 under SS Captain Mobius. It is not certain that Wittman actually took part in the later combat. Nonetheless his personal tally for that day is impressive to say the least. Mike
Not all the CLY tanks were hit or damaged. Some, like the Firefly below were taken away for examination. Captured firefly This undamaged Cromwell was knocked out 4th July whilst in German service: PRO WO171/336, War Diary of 30 Corps "G" for June 1944. "Appendix 'B' to & AD Intsum 30 REPORT ON CROMWELL TANK WITH GERMAN MARKINGS. Found 4 Jul 44 at 905657 Recovered by an Armd Div REME and inspected BRETTEVILLE L'ORGUEILLEUSE 923720 5 Jul 44. 1. Type Cromwell CS Mk IV (95mm gun) 2. Markings (a) German cross on front and side of turret (b) British markings painted over with cam paint but the following clearly visible: T187761 1 LCT 3. Condition Penetrated in eight places by what looks like 17 pdr but NOT set on fire. REME reports that NO KO'd Cromwells handled have been set on fire. 4. Modifications (a) Cupola previously reported as German is definitely British. (b) German wireless aparatus (thought to be an inter-comm aparatus only). 5. Amn Confirmed that some German amn for main armament was in the tank. 6. Documents Following found in tank: Identification: 12 SS Pz Div FPN : 59043 A 7. General Tank definitely did not belong to the Div that found it. No information available as to who knocked it out or when. (Source: 8 Corps IS No. 11) COMMENTS: This tank was lost at VILLERS BOCAGE on June 13." Below is the tank from the above report (a CS Cromwell) photographed at Villers. The knocked out tanks. This is the order of wrecks the way Wittmann would have met them. This Firefly was knocked out to Wittmann's right as he hit the road into Villers. 1 Blondie Then he turned left to go to Villers. He first met 2 Recce Stuarts 2 Calamity 3 second Stuart Then the 4 RHQ Cromwells RHQ 4 Carr 5 Cloudsley-Thompson 6 RSM 7 Dyas Turned the corner into Villers. 8 OP Sherman Then the final tank in the centre of Villers 9 OP Cromwell None of the other tanks could possibly have been victims of Wittmann. They were all over the hill and out of sight at Point 213. They could not be added to Wittmann's tally. He was supported by at least one other Tiger so it is possible some of the Recce Stuarts or the RHQ tanks could have been knocked out by the other Tiger (which was itself knocked out near the 6pdr gun that Taylor says hit Wittmann) Wittmann left his knocked out tank in the centre of Villers. As his tank was still in the centre of Villers after it was retaken by the Germans he never got back out so he never met Dyas 'head-on ' nor was he knocked out by a 6pdr gun near the RHQ troop wrecks..
Wittmann on his way into Villers. Just after he knocked out Cloudsley-Thompson. Reading John's account you note that Dyas was hit just after Cloudsley. This could not have happened if Wittmann had to travel into the town and then drive back. That would be a gap of minutes not seconds. It is significant that when J C-T wrote his version in the 1950's he included the 'head-on' meeting but in his recently published book he leaves that bit out. The only alteration he makes. I also know he personaly does not accept the Dyas-Wittmann standoff happened. Dyas was hit by an over-the-rear shot by Wittmann as he drove in to Villers.
m kenny, thanks for posting those pictures, I guess they are from Villers Bocage through the lens? Some of the point made in Cloudsley-Thompson make sense (I must admit I haven't read either the 1950s or more recent versions). The Location of Dyas's tank could support the 'over the rear' shot theory. Being one who has never sat in a closed down tank, let alone a Tiger, how easy would it have been for Wittman to see Dyas's tank behind him as he drove down the high street? If Wittman's Tiger wasn't disabled by a 6 pounder what are the other theories? I freely admit although I have read several accounts of the battle I have found the differences rather confusing and I know there are many other versions I haven't seen yet. Would be very interested to hear other opinions. Mike
I think the problem is people want explainations for every act and 100% checkable and referenced proof for all events. It is never going to happen and I wonder why it is not enough to admit we will never know why 'this' happened instead of 'that'. Wittmann was in the high street and had been hit at least twice by a 17pdr. That alone could account for his damage. Close checking of the road around the disabled Tiger appears to show a large U-turn just behind his tank. Perhaps he was hit and turned straight away and the damage he recieved siezed his final drive? Did the swerve jam his tracks? Who knows? Wittmann's own account says he was stopped 'in the centre' of Villers by a heavy pak hit. As he never mentions the Firefly duel then I presume he was confusing the Fireflys with anti-tank guns. The KISS principle would make the Firefly hit the most likely cause of his demise. In early versions of his 'duel' Dyas said he at first thought he was facing the rear of the Tiger. In The awful Wittmann book by Gary Simpson Dyas stated he 'stalked Wittmann through the streets of Villers for several minutes' It is clear that he confused some aspects of his actions (understandable if you have been blasted out of your turret) and the position of the wrecks rule out any chance of a head-on meeting at the top of the high street. It simply could not have happened. The Forty book makes a number of errors and relies on pre-Taylor accounts. It is not really a good account of Wittmanns lone foray.
M kenny, thanks for your reply mate, certainly gives me some more pointers for further research. I totally agree that after this time, with many participants now deceased, and human memory being a fallible fragile thing, the whole truth will now never be known. There will probably be more 'definitive' accounts of the events of 13th June 1944 published which will just further muddy the water and each attract their own enthusiastic supporters. It is certainly an action worthy of the research that has already been done and that still to come - from German, Allied and 'neutral' points of view. I became aware of the battle about 20 years ago when we bought a cottage nearby and have occasionally meddled in a bit of research as I found it rather strange to be doing daily shopping in such a famous (or infamous?) town high street. I think I became something of an 'expert' amongst our French neighbours, many of whom knew relatively little about the battle. Mike
Giving this thread a bump: does anyone have *current* pics of Villers Bocage? We are putting together a research project on this battle and would like to post current photos of the city alongside those taken before, during and after the battle. Regards, Mick
does anyone have *current* pics of Villers Bocage? Have you tried GoogleStreetview to see if that is any good for today's pics?
PBI the 'then and nows' in post #7 give a pretty good view - the town hasn't changed much since it was rebuilt and the outer regions are just as was in '44. Mike
Anyone wanting a bit more background on Villers Bocage take a peek at Kenneth Taylor's War Diary entries here. My own Dad was wounded near Viller Bocage so it was nice to read that it got blasted the day after Dad was wounded by shrapnel emanating from there!
Your link to the Rifle Brigade seems to be down can u give me the alternative URL Had a cousin in 1st Bn capture at Calais died 12-12-=1940 Lamsdorf Aldersdale
Here are some photos of Villers Bocage taken in 2007. My Dad George Greed of the 1st Batallion Rifle Brigade was a half track driver and was captured here on 13th June.
Hi Mr Greedy55, I've got a copy of the missing personnel folder for the Rifle Brigade in NW Europe (WO361/584) and your dad is mentioned in a statement by one of the NCO's who managed to get back to the British lines as being last seen unharmed "near the road where the action took place". The statement, which is only 4 lines long) is signed by L/Cpl. A. Fearne and by the O.C. "A" Company (who I think seems to be a Capt Milner). Regards Tom
Re. Wittmann and Villers Bocage etc. recently saw this post by James Holland on Twitter: James Holland (@James1940) | Twitter As he's writing (the first draft of ) his book on "Normandy 44"...
And that 'decapitation thrust' is effectively what the Germans tried at Hill 112 and at Rauray (both in Normandy and within a few days of each other).
There's an article here: http://www.forcespostalhistorysociety.org.uk/journal_archive/journals-239---228/journal-228o.pdf Titled: "The D-Day Armoured Assault Brigades by Emie Leopard" (Nb the text below has been translated off of the pdf so there may be some translation effects/errors at the mo.) "On the 8th Armd Bde front the 24th Lancers followed up with 56th Bde infantry of 50 Division but 4/7 Dragoon Guards struck for the highway between Caen and Bayeux whilst the Sherwood Rangers were the first British troops to enter Bayeux itself, commemorated 50 years on , in 1995, by a stone and ceremony at the Bayeux War Museum. Tanks of the 8th Armd Bde battled inland 11 miles by 10 June 1944 around Tilly Seulles and Cristot, overlooked by a line of hills fiercely defended by German troops at Points 102 and 103. The whole British front was becoming a stalemate with the initial assault grinding to a halt. A fresh impetus was needed. 7th Armoured Division, the Desert Rats, had by now landed. They were ordered to do a right hook from Caumont to Villers Bocaae. The lead regiment *3rd City of London Yeomanry reached Villers Bocage and pushed on 3 miles further to Point 203. At this point they met the German tank ace Michael Wittman in his Tiger tank. He called up the remainder of his troop of Tigers and within five minutes had destroyed 24 of the 3rd CLY tanks. Having not made provision to reinforce his attack by 7th Armd Div. the commander General Erskine,with agreement of his 30 Corps commander General Bucknall, ordered 7th Armd Div. to retire. Both Generals were later sacked by Montgomery but this failure to break out congealed the front and it took a further six weeks of bitter battles for the Normandy break out to be achieved. The two assault brigades took part in all these battles: the Sherwood Rangers took revenge at Rauray by knocking out 13 German Tigers and Panthers and capturing the first one intact, but the cost for the month of June alone was 40 tank commanders killed. By the 24th July the two brigades were briefly taken out of action. From D-Day the 27th had lost 106 and the 8th 108 tanks. The 27th was then disbanded; its remaining tanks and crews to reinforce the 8th Armd Bde which was now composed,until the end of the war, of 4/ 7RDG, 13/ 18 Hussars, and the Sherwood Rangers. Continuously in action to the end of the war the 8th Armoured operated as an independent tank brigade supporting every British division, two American and Canad~an divisions and achieved many 'firsts' - first across the Seine, first into Belgium, first British troops to fight on German soil since the battle of Minden in 1759. It was also the first to reach the Arnhem airborne troops (4/7 RDG), first to capture the major German towns of Geilenkirchen with 84th US infantry, Heinsberg with 52nd Lowland Division and first into Cleve with 43rd Wessex Division. It took part in the Rhine crossings with 51st Highland Division and ended in the capture of Bremen with 3rd British Infantry Division. Remarkably, the Sherwood Rangers .Old Comrades Association secretary, Ken Ewing, who lives in Poole, came all the way from Alamein to Tunis, and D-Day to the end of the war without receiving a scratch or having a tank knocked out. We still say we can see "the bloody halo" above his head." Edit: Nb see note in post below. 4th CLY - not 3rd CLY etc.
I'd say that in the V-B part there are many errors, the most obvious is that it was the 4 CLY which entered into V-B and was roughly handed by the Tigers.
