VERITABLE 1945: 15th Scottish & 43rd Wessex Divisions in the Reichswald battle

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by stolpi, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. Wapen

    Wapen Well-Known Member

    Lovely stuff Stolpi. Stand by for email chat!
     
  2. Wapen

    Wapen Well-Known Member

    This is a lovely bit of Jagdpanthering:
     
  3. Wapen

    Wapen Well-Known Member

    I've written up the story of the 2 A&SH attack and attached it here. Please send it to any Argylls or Scots Guards you know - and any really geeky historians. I'm after feedback for my PhD.
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Any idea casualty evac point from this area?
     
  5. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Bump - 75 years ago 'Op Veritable' the Rhineland Offensive started.
     
  6. Wapen

    Wapen Well-Known Member

    Yo Stolpi! I've had my head up my bum again but went out for a quiet pint to mark the anniversary. Email to follow.
     
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  7. BillyAirforce

    BillyAirforce Member

    stolpi... a damn good job!!! I'll continue reading!
     
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  8. Wapen

    Wapen Well-Known Member

    Well done spotting the AT ditch on magic Google! I know that caused you grief. Hopefully this Covid fuss will go away and we can have another trip soon. :cheers:
     
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  9. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    As what I am doing is effectively scribbling in the margins, I thought I would add a little bit I found in the war diary of 59th Anti-Tank Regiment. The regiment had concentrated all of its Archers in 333 Battery rather than following the official war establishment, but what's interesting and in fact unique is the mention of infantry loading trials on Feb 4:

    verit.jpg

    So 129 Brigade had under command 235 Battery (towed) and one troop of Archers. I would say it is likely that the 17 pounder anti-tank guns mentioned in the 4 Wilts war diary were Archers, and they may have (probably?) participated in the troop lift that 4 Wilts described.
     
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  10. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Thank you Chris for pointing out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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  11. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Reading about 129th Brigade in post 19, I was a bit puzzled about why the brigade had been assigned to the POPE route in the first place, as it goes right through the centre of Cleve. But thinking about it, I realize this has to do with the plan for the division and Horrocks' order given too soon. They were expecting Cleve to be under control of 15th Division already, so it would be possible to drive right through the town and head south. So their orders were not to bypass the town per se, but to pass through what they thought was a town in friendly hands.
     
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  12. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Yes, and once they realized the town was still enemy held, they discovered that there was no alternative but to smash through the upper-town during the night. IMO they didn't stumble into the town by faulty map reading. See my remarks about the "creation of a myth" over here: VERITABLE 1945: 15th Scottish & 43rd Wessex Divisions in the Reichswald battle .
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  13. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Yes, I saw that! Cheers to you for pointing that out!!! :) And thank you for the description of the action including the loss of Archers on 14 Feb - that isn't mentioned in the regimental war diary. :banghead:

    I feel I should note, you added a mention of the troops riding Archers in a post about 4SLI which makes it seem like they might have been the riders, but I think it was 4Wilts (in the van of the brigade) who were on them.

    I found this image in the Pathe' news reel that you linked - same place in Cleve as the image of a Firefly you snapped. Clearly I have Archers on the brain!

    PatheVideoCleveAt2min26.jpg
     
  14. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    You are correct, you were referring to 4th Wilts. I adapted the post. But the 4th SLI regimental history mentions men riding on the 17-pounders SP (see page 75 of their history which I attached to the post). If it is true, as you said (and I have no reason not to believe you), that all of the SP 17-pounders of 59 AT Regt were concentrated into one Battery, we might have another riddle ... :huh:.

    I quickly peeked into the War Diary of 4th Wilts, which says that 1 Troop of 17-pounders was attached (no mention if these were SP's though).
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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  15. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Ooh, I missed that about SLI riders. The anti tank regiment's war diary is far from complete on details.
     
  16. Juha

    Juha Junior Member

    Hello Stolpi
    An excellent and very informative thread, thanks a lot. One comment from the Northern Europe to the message #4 and mine injuries. Cold reduces blood circulation in the limbs, especially in their outer parts, and thus reduces blood loss if one has lost his foot. So if the person does not freeze to death, low temperature can benefit a wounded who does not get immediate help.
     
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  17. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I have been puzzling over the term "Blerick operation" which appears in post #7 by stolpi and in the divisional history (p256). As near as I can tell from The Quiet Gunner At War, Blerick was a town also taken by 44th Brigade, on Dec 4 1944, and it was rather a textbook operation against defenses including an anti-tank ditch, all of which went off like clockwork.
     
  18. Wapen

    Wapen Well-Known Member

    Ho (ho ho) Chris. Yes. It became the armoured infantry template so a seires of attacks were called "doing a Blerick job". It didn't always work.
     
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  19. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Bump ... 77th anniversary of the opening of Op Veritable (the battle for the Rhineland 1945).
     
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  20. Wapen

    Wapen Well-Known Member

    If my clock is right, the final pause in the barrage starts in... 5 mins (16.00). 15, 53 and 51 Divs are supposed to be reaching their phase one objectives and go on the defensive.
     
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