Upper Arno Valley - Pratomagno , July 1944.

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Caste, Apr 3, 2022.

  1. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hi Gary, I do not have this book!! Very very interesting!! Does it have anything about AREZZO- LATERINA-PRATOMAGNO? Let me know if you sell the copies.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2022
  2. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hi Andreas,
    I have already contacted the Friburg Archive, I'm waiting for a response.
     
  3. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Do you mean that he works there?
     
  4. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    That is extremly interesting. Thank you so much Gary.
    I have the one bottom right about Cassino, but I do not have the others!
     
  5. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Here is what I have
     

    Attached Files:

  6. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Caste,
    Did you contact Claudio Biscarini? I am fairly sure he will have a copy of the German war diary you are looking for as he sent me some pages many years ago when I was doing some research on the Pratomagno.

    Vitellino
     
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  7. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    No, he's a freelancer, which means he's likely cheaper and certainly faster than the archive itself.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  8. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hi Vitellino,
    Yes, I contacted him but he has the german war diaries of the 14th Army, while I need the war diaries of the 10th Army (and he doesn't have them)!
     
  9. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Just checked. AOK10 is not digitised but the relevant documents are in the Bundesarchiv so could be copied.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  10. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Hi Lorenzo,

    here are the chapters that are in Josef Fossinger's book. I will say that quality of the reprint is rather shocking to put it nicely, and that is without using expletives. Its a shame has there is many original photos. If you are going to scan, or use your phone, then do it properly! I'm thinking that the booklets have been printed has they should be? Original? They look like it to me. My rant is over.

    1..jpg
    I've done 7 & 8 which is not the period you are after and I've deleted them. If you ask me, then you need 9-11? Can anyone confirm before I use my phone, or scanner when its connected? Not wanting to waste my time if I use my phone.
    2..jpg


    3..jpg
    In Gary's post 48, he mentions that it has more detail on the time period you are interested in than any other 334.ID book. I'm guessing he means the one below?
    4..jpeg
    I can't do much more until someone confirms what I need to copy? Lorenzo, ask your friend to translate the chapter pages? I think it would be wise before I carry on.
    Regards,
    Stu.
    Edit: why has this book not got any page numbers? Also, some of the letters are missing from the start of each word in the later chapters. Really?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2022
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  11. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I will copy the relevant pages when I'm next home.

    I was in Kew yesterday and I copied 7 and 10 RB WDs, together with 61 Infantry Brigade WD. I also copied 3 Grenadier Guards and 1st Guards Brigade. So we should have all of the WDs for the infantry units in this area.

    I will post the pages later.
     
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  12. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Nice chap.

    Thank you. Hopefully 61 Infantry Brigade WD should give more detail? Not sure about 3 Grenadier Guards?
    Regards,
    Stu.
     
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  13. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Stuart,
    Looking the index you posted I need 9, 10 and 11 chapter. I have no idea why there is no page number at all.. sounds strange to me too.
    Yes, the book Gary posted on post 48 could be very useful.
     
  14. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hi Gary,
    thank you so much. What is Kew?
    Do you mind posting here the photos but also sending them to me via email?
    I really appreciate all the help this wonderfull forum is giving to me.. I'm grateful!
    Best regards,
    Caste
     
  15. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Kew is the place where the UK National Archives are held.

    Here is 61 Infantry Brigade WD for 27th/28th July. Looking at the grid references it seems elements of 2 RB and 17/21 Lancers had advanced past your village by early afternoon.

    61_Infantry_Brigade_Jul_44_0016.jpg

    61_Infantry_Brigade_Jul_44_0017.jpg
     
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  16. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Looking at 1 Guards Brigade and 3 Grenadier Guards war diaries it appears they weren't involved until later in July by which time the front had passed on.

    I can send you all of 1 Guards Brigade and unit war diaries (3 Welsh Guards, 2 Coldstream Guards, 3 Grenadier Guards) plus 61 Infantry Brigade and units (2, 7 and 10 Rifle Brigade). This should allow to research those units movements in your region.

    However, it will have to be next week as I'm off to Italy for a week...:D

    I will also get 17/21 Lancers and 627 Squadron Royal Engineers in a couple of weeks.

    Regards,
    Gary.
     
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  17. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Amazing!
    When it talks about the 12/17 L on 27 of july the shermans started firing against two MG's and the diary of the priest says the same thing!
    The liberation of my Village was after 12:00 o' clock on 28 of july, the priest didn't mention any tanks but only infantry entering into the Village. Besides all the material you are going to upload next week, do you mind upload also the compete WD of 61RB for 28,29, 30 and 31 of july?
    Thank you Gary, your help is truly helping me out.
     
  18. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    No problem, take your time!
     
  19. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hello!!
    Gary, Stuart, are you still here?:D
    Did you come back from Italy? I'm really curious about the wwd diaries..:D
     
  20. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Hi Lorenzo,

    Here is the WD of 17/21 Lancers. You will notice on the 27th/28th July No. 4 Troop report being held up by 'a blow' (destroyed road/bridge) at 034494. this looks like it maps to the road into your village?

    17_21_Lancers_Jul_44_0015.JPG

    I would expect there to be some Royal Engineer involvement in assessing or fixing this road/bridge but it isn't 625 Field Squadron - I will try and get 8 Field Squadron WD when I'm next down at the archive in a couple of weeks. I would expect Royal engineers to be involved

    If I have time this weekend I will zip up all the WDs I have and send them over.

    Regards,
    Gary.
     
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