Training camp/hospital info please

Hi all

I'm tracking my grandfather's journey through the war via his letters home to my gran. As his letters typically divulge very little due to censorship I'm finding it quite hard to get a feel for what life at these various units would be like. I'd be really grateful if anyone can provide any information on the places he writes from please:

His first letter is undated and sent from Osgodby Moor Training Camp near Market Rasen. I can find virtually no information about this training facility on the internet though I know it was later turned into a German/Italian POW camp. Can anyone provide any info about what this camp was like, how long the conscripted typically spent there, what the training would comprise of etc.?

He then writes in June '43 from an Infantry Reinforcement Training Depot in North Africa where he comments that he spends most of his time "scrubbing down". Can anyone provide any info as per the above?

He joins the London Irish Rifles 2nd Battalion (Central Mediterranean Forces) in September '43 and is injured by October '43. He writes from 66 General Hospital (with a "small scratch" to his thigh....which keeps him in dock for 5 months!) I've sent off for his service records - will they document what his injury actually was? Records show this hospital was in Catania during his time there. Can anyone provide any information on what an army General Hospital was like? What sort of set up would it be?

He is moved to 96 General Hospital in late October. Records show this was in Beni Aknoun, North Africa. Does it sound correct that he would have been moved that far? What might the reason be? And does anyone have any info on this hospital also?

By the end of December he is moved to No 8 Convalescent Depot. I've found a reference to this in the Kew National Archives but the record is not digitised. Would this has been a half-way house for soldiers near recovery?

By March '44 he is in the 3rd Battalion No 1 IRTD. His last dated letter is of 31st May. His last letter has the date cut out by censors. He sadly died in action on 24th June 1944.

I realise this is long and raises many questions. It would be great if anyone could shed any light on the above please.

Many thanks

Louise

 

Hi,

You will likely not receive any details of his hospital treatment other than brief entries on his B103 form regarding his removal from his Battalion to Hospital and subsequent moves to
other hospitals.

There may be mention of the injury sustained in his statement of services form.

Extensive Medical records do exist in UK
service files but MOD, unlike Canadian Archives for example, do not release them to interested parties other than in exceptional circumstances.

I couldn't describe what MOD feel are exceptional circumstances but I suspect they don't want families to learn that ancestors sustained STD's etc.

I'm sure other members will answere your other queries.

Good Luck

Steve Y

 

Louise.

What is your grandfather's name?

FdeP

 

Louise

Moving a long distance between hospitals was NOT unusual - I was moved from Ancona in Northern Italy - to Bari in Southern Italy - and from there to the UK

as I thought- BUT they threw me off the Ship at Catania in Sicily- why ..? - they couldn't find a surgeon with the time or ability to do skin grafts - so I spent

nearly six months in various Hospitals, from September '44 to January '45 before having a week at a convalescent depot near Naples…...

The 31st Brit Gen Hospital at Catania was one wing of the local Maternity unit...
cheers

 

Just a guess.

Frank Reginald Parsons

Rank:RiflemanService No:14335101
Date of Death:24/06/1944
Age:31Regiment/Service:Royal Ulster Rifles 2nd Bn. The London Irish Rifles
Grave Reference:I, H, 18.Cemetery:ORVIETO WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Thomas and Priscilla Parsons, of West Molesey, Surrey; husband of Florence Alice Ethel Parsons, of West Molesey.

 

Yes, that's right!

 

Hi Louise.

Like you I can find little about Osgodby Moor Training Camp nor about Infantry Reinforcement Training Depot in North Africa.

Once you have received his records, you will find out the places he was at and the amount of time he was there and what training he went through.

<He then writes in June '43 from an Infantry Reinforcement Training Depot in North Africa where he comments that he spends most of his time "scrubbing down". Can anyone provide any info as per the above?>

Again records will help with this, hopefully showing the dates he was there and what he was doing. Here is a little reading which shows what the 2nd Batt london Irish were doing before the battle of Tunis particularly the piece where it says that it rained solid for three days.

http://www.irishbrigade.co.uk/pages/the-story-of-the-irish-brigade--1942-1947/london-irish-rifles/the-london-irish-at-war-1939-1945/the-2nd-battalion-london-irish-rifles-during-the-second-world-war.php

<He joins the London Irish Rifles 2nd Battalion (Central Mediterranean Forces) in September '43 and is injured by October '43.>

As we don’t know exactly where he was before this we can’t tell if he was involved in the invasion of Sicily July – Aug 43.

THE invasion of southern Italy began on September 3, 1943, with the Eighth Army crossing the Straits of Messina and landing in the heel and toe of Italy.
Could have been injured in The battle for Termoli The invasion of southern Italy continued steadily but slowly. Along the Adriatic coast it was particularly slow, because the Germans were blowing up every bridge, culvert, and road, and as there was a bridge almost every half-mile along the only main road of the coast the German plan to delay the Eighth Army worked only too well.
To prevent further delay and to expedite the invasion it was decided to land a force at Termoli, farther up the coast, and thus force the Germans to give ground in the south. The Irish Brigade took part in this move, and when they sailed from Barletta on the morning of October 5 everyone looked forward to a pleasant sea cruise with maybe a few quiet days at Termoli. But those days were not so quiet, for the reason that Termoli was well garrisoned by the Hun.
When the craft carrying the brigade arrived off Termoli harbour at 2230 hours on October 5, they were shelled from the shore. The gun-fire had more of a nuisance value than being an accurate bombardment. Commandos carried out the initial assault, followed by 36 Brigade, and then after a day or two the three Irish battalions landed.

<He writes from 66 General Hospital (with a "small scratch" to his thigh....which keeps him in dock for 5 months!) I've sent off for his service records - will they document what his injury actually was? Records show this hospital was in Catania during his time there. Can anyone provide any information on what an army General Hospital was like? What sort of set up would it be?>
A bit modest with his injury. Not likely to state actual injury.

66 British General Hospital
Leeds 5/42 to 6/42 then overseas; Museirat [should this be Nuseirat] 9/42 to 7/43 then to Syracuse; Syracuse 7/43 to 9/43 then to Catania; Catania 9/43 to 8/44 then to Ancona; Ancona 8/44 to 1/45 then to Rimini; Rimini 1/45 to 15/12/45 then disbanded.

As you can see the Hospital moved about a bit. As with all the services, you have to look at the Army as a complete self - contained unit which takes everything with it.(except wives and children in wartime).

This thread talks about hospitals
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/18948-british-general-hospitals-locations/

This one is about US hospital but both worked along similar lines.
https://www.med-dept.com/articles/ww2-military-hospitals-european-theater-of-operations/
<He is moved to 96 General Hospital in late October. Records show this was in Beni Aknoun, North Africa. Does it sound correct that he would have been moved that far? What might the reason be? And does anyone have any info on this hospital also?>

96 British General Hospital
Peebles 9/42 to 11/42 then overseas; Maison Carree (Algiers) 11/42 to 12/42 then to Guelma(Algeirs;

Exmouth 11/44 to 1/45 then to Kain; Kain 1/45 to 5/45 then to Tournai.
Beni Aknoun is a district in Algiers, so possible a receiving station there.

Catinia to Beni aknoun about 700mls by sea.
Beni Aknoun to Guelma by road 310 mls

Yes he would have been moved that far, remember the battle for Italy, was still going on, hundreds of wounded would coming into the hospital every day, so those that could be moved were shipped out of the way. Transport was no problem as the ships suppling the troops in Italy, would be going to or passing Algiers to pick up the next load of supplies.

<By the end of December he is moved to No 8 Convalescent Depot. Would this have been a half-way house for soldiers near recovery? Yes.

Hope this helps. RCG.

 

Hi

I was able to start my research into my fathers wartime travels with a similar set of letters but in our case, written to him so I was in possession of most of his unit details (as addresses) even before receiving his service record.

Many of the medical units have detailed diaries at the National Archives and you may wish to investigate these. A number of members will do this for a modest fee.

66th General Hospital has a diary for May 42 to December 43, W177/1324

The attached are example pages from a North African Casualty clearing station and General Hospital diary and give some indication of what you might find. If you are lucky you may be able to match an X list (casualty) entry in your Grandfathers service record to a line in a diary recording hospital admission but only as a general ‘number’ arriving on a particular day. The detail medical report is still sobering reading 70+ years later.

There is also an infantry training depot diary for October 42 in the Middle East series, WO169/5100. If it is the right diary then even though it is for a month or so after he was there, it may well give you a good idea of its location and what was generally was going on.

Graham

 

Graham, Thanks for posting that, fascinating reading, those guys certainly went through the mill.

 

Many thanks, RCG and Hutt!

Sorry, I should have been clearer. All of his letters are dated and have his addresses on them. The dates I mentioned in my query are those that show he's in a new location. He writes frequently - usually once a week, sometimes twice if he has "green letters" to use. He was lucky that when a load of hospital inmates left to be shipped back to the UK, they donated him what they had left.

To clarify then, his last letter addressed from RF BNAF is 23rd August '43. His next is dated 8th September '43 from his new address: 2nd Btn LIR, CMF (they day Italy surrenders I understand). The Battalion diary shows this is now Patti (indeed on Sicily). He doesn't say how long he's been based there, only that he's not written for over 2 weeks as all he has done is "move about". The touching thing about the letters is how extraordinarily mundane they are! A combination of not being able to reveal anything in detail and not wanting to cause worry no doubt (hence the understatement of the "scratch" he suffers). He's amazingly upbeat...especially given it takes 5 whole months for a stack of my grandmother's letters to finally reach him.

Ah, the move between hospitals makes sense.

I shall read the links with interest. The hospital report does indeed make sobering reading. My grandfather was by all accounts a placid, gentle man. Lord only knows how he coped with all the horrors of war in its many guises.

I shall make a visit to Kew after Christmas - it's only a few miles down the road from me. I am supplementing his letters with illustrations of things he mentions, snippets of info on his whereabouts, posters for the few films he sees etc. so i'm grateful on any pointers on where/how to find information (I am only a third of the way through typing up his letters but am already up to 49 pages).

Thank you all for the info!

Louise

 

Louise.
This is an interesting read, Stan's story looks as if he travels the same areas as your grandfather.


Stans story.
At the end of this course we joined the 17th Battalion just north of Market Rasen in camp at Osgodby Moor there followed another 12 weeks of intensive training in possible situations we might meet. It finished with a weeks trip to North Yorkshire moors for field firing to prepare us for fire going over us. At Osgodby recreation was a possible Saturday or Sunday half day pass to Lincoln or Grimsby Sundays conditional on finishing within 20 minutes of the winner of a 5 mile cross country run, winner always being an AAA junior champion. Should you fail then not only no pass but on Monday after all other duties you did it again, not many failed.

http://wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46675&p=598669

 

There's actually quite a bit online about both Osgodby Moor Camp and the Reinforcement Depot in North Africa.

Go to the last minutes of reel 3:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80022017

It was a Polish resettlement camp, postwar:

http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/PRC/PRC.htm

Tom's got the depot around Cap Matifou: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/56589-no1-infantry-reinforcement-training-depot-location/

IWM says it was at Philippeville, "Tunisia". http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/agent/359383

Given both Cap Matifou and Philippevile are in Algeria, you might want to drop him a note and get his insight.

Regards,

Dave

 

Thanks Dave.

Yes I was in direct contact with Tom a few weeks ago which is how I ended up on this forum (directed to him by Janet at the Orvieto War Cemetery, and directed to her via Edmund who runs the London Irish Rifles website....)!

One thing my novice research skills have shown me is that people are incredibly helpful in providing redirects to those that may be able to provide the expertise and insight!

Thanks

Louise