'Top Secret' till 1996: March 1946 Japanese surrender on Bali

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by davidbfpo, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Finally a report from 'Time' magazine 18/3/1946, which provides a pointer to Bali had changed during WW2:
    Link: INDONESIA: Where the Angels Fly Low
     
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  2. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Two locations not identified today: a POW camp or post-Japanese surrender assembly camp Chol Burry or Cholburry. Where the Dutch POWs assembled 18th October 1945.Possibly where between 1/11/1945-31/12/1945 Dutch POWs get British training in modern warfare.

    The second is the port of embarkation of the Dutch troops on 14/2/1946, described as the roads off Ban Seng, then French Indo-China and now Vietnam.

    The latest version of the chronology has been added.
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

  4. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    British training of the Dutch took place in Malacca, Malaya for other Dutch units, notably 2-14 Infantry Regiment (in reality a light infantry battalion) which featured in a controversial first engagement with Indonesian forces at Pesing, on Java, on 15/4/1946. See Tom Anderson's thesis: ttps://www.academia.edu/48969303/The_road_to_Pesing

    Several online sources refer to 37,000 Dutch POW of whom 8,500 died. They appear to have been scattered across Japanese POW camps, possibly with most in Thailand / Burma and a few in Japan itself.The best summary found, for this thread:
    From a Dutch site, but in English: Liberation and evacuation - East Indies camp archives

    There were Dutch POW in Saigon area, French Indo-China (Vietnam), a month after the Japanese surrender. From a comment in an interview with Major Philip Geoffrey Malins, who states:
    From a WGBH Vietnam War 1982 documentary series: Vietnam: A Television History; Roots of a War; Interview with Philip Geoffrey Malins, 1982

    (Copied to the 20th Indian Division thread).
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Just to confuse I have found in Antony Brett-James semi-official history of the 5th Indian Division, published in 1951 refers to:
    From: Anthony Brett-James. Ball of Fire. Fifth Indian Division in the Second World War. 1951. Chapter 32. Epilogue. Appendices.

    Yes, there was planning for a landing by the Dutch on Bali by General Mansergh, the corps commander and he took the actual surrender on the 8th March 1946. Peter Kemp reached Bali on the 23rd February 1946.

    Post 38 refers to the fighting between British Indian forces elsewhere on Java, notably at Surabaya and there is a useful 2010 article on that episode and its impact. See: The Death Knell of the British Empire | Standpoint
     
  6. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    An update on Post 62 (cited in part): Two locations not identified today: a POW camp or post-Japanese surrender assembly camp Chol Burry or Cholburry. The second is the port of embarkation of the Dutch troops on 14/2/1946, described as the roads off Ban Seng, then French Indo-China and now Vietnam.

    Renewed research has id'd both locations in Thailand; the POW camp may have been at Chon Buri and there is a nearby resort Bang Saen Beach aka bang Saen Ville (Pattaya is to the south).

    See: Chonburi - Wikipedia and Bang Saen Beach - Wikipedia

    There are two chapters on the Dutch experience in a 2008 book: 'Forgotten Captives in Japanese-Occupied Asia' Edited By Kevin Blackburn,and Karl Hack. I have only skimmed them for relevant information. See: Forgotten Captives in Japanese Occupied Asia: National Memories and Forgotten Captivities (Routledge Studies in the Modern History of Asia) - PDF Free Download

    After their defeat in NEI eighteen thousand Dutch prisoners worked on the infamous 'Death Railway' and 10% died. There were 100k Dutch internees, mainly kept in the NEI and forty-two thousand POW. Some of the POWs in Thailand joined / rejoined the NEI military, often referred to as "Gadjah Merah". At one stage ten thousand POWs threatened to revolt if not taken home - unclear if to NEI or Holland. The revolt was averted when Dutch internees, women and children, from Java arrived in Thailand after being evacuated after nationalist violence - possibly in October 1945.

    Training is referred to Pg. 304:
    Note pg. 311, as the photo on pg. 310 indicates:
    [​IMG]

    On pg. 309:
    Footnote 80 refers to payment for supplies etc in Thailand were 'mutual aid' and the author suggests:
    Footnote 82 refers to an interview of a Dutch Marine: Interview with Felix Bakker, Korps Mariniers and a 1947 anonymous report 'De Gadjah Merah op Bali
    en Lombok'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  7. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Reminded by another thread 'Research & pet projects' being updated I have recently provided a copy of my research to a Dutch military historian, so await their response if any. The next task would be to convert the format, a table, into written prose and finally track down what happened on nearby Lombok, which was the final Japanese surrender in 1946.

    There was alas no response from the Dutchman (Added 10/10/2022).
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
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  8. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    I have struggled to find a suitable thread about General Christison's time in command of the British mission to the Netehrlands East Indies (now Indonesia).

    So in research on a separate subject I found a new book:‘Empire and Cold War: the Roots of US-Third World Antagonism, 1945-1947 by Scott L. Bills, published 1990 and it contains:
    The Bills book cites Peter Dennis, Troubled Days of Peace Mountbatten and South East Asia Command, I945-46 (New York: St Martin's Press, 1987), pp. 162, 182-3; which state:
     
  9. TijgerB

    TijgerB Member

    WO172-6911 and WO172-9791 are probably the best if you want it on a daily basis:D:D
     
  10. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

  11. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Andreas,

    Yes, it was obvious to non-Dutch participants that a return of the Dutch was unlikely to gain support from the local population, certainly on Java and Sumatra. The Dutch had lost all their intelligence access following their defeat and surrender. Others found before VJ-day it was a very difficult place to operate in - somewhere I have read that SOE teams were quickly betrayed.

    The Dutch had many reasons to seek a return. The scale of their national mobilization in Holland itself was impressive. Compromise was not possible. We know what followed then.

    As for Bali the Japanese occupation fell under naval command, that may have benefited the Balinese.
     
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  12. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

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  13. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    The RN Landing Ship Large / Infantry(LSL(1)) used in the Bali landing was HMS Sainfoin and there is a book on her service: Sainfoin's War By W.J. Mitchell and Colin Buckenham, broken into twenty-four chapters and there is one with passages on the Bali landing:
    Links: hms sainfoin and HMS Sainfoin (F183) - Wikipedia
     
  14. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Landings On Bali

    Short Summary
    American troops landing at Bali island, Indonesia.

    Description
    Bali, Indonesia.

    Various shots of the Japanese prisoners of war (POW's) unloading landing crafts at beach in Bali, local people looking on. Various shots of lines or military vehicles and supplies at the beach. British soldiers supervising the landing. Two officers chatting.

    Year: 1946?

    Tags
    Bali Indonesia Japanese prisoners war POWs landing craft soldiers
    Data
    FILM ID:2193.16MEDIA URN:64533GROUP:Pathe newsreelsARCHIVE:British PathéISSUE DATE:1940 - 1949SOUND:MuteHD FORMAT:Available on requestSTOCK:Black & WhiteDURATION:00:01:03:00TIME IN/OUT:01:59:23:00 / 02:00:26:00CANISTER:UN 1367 E
     
  15. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    papiermache,

    There are several films of the landings at Bali. The short clip you refer to includes a section from the IWM film clip in Post 1: DUTCH LANDINGS ON BALI [Allocated Title]

    There were no Americans involved in the landings, although sometimes US-style steel helmets appear on Dutch heads. I think the film clip has been wrongly titled!
     
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  16. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Bob's your uncle!

    I have left a comment at British Pathé.

    Papier Maché
     

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