TNA WO 417 - War Office: Army Casualty Lists, 1939-45 War

See post 13

War Office: Army Casualty Lists, 1939-45 War | The National Archives

.Has anyone had a look at these files?
If so can they tell me if they are more or less the same information which was published daily in e.g. The Times ?


This had separate sections for Officers and for Other ranks and published names under Regts, Corps, etc, with headings for status (KIA, DOW, Died On Active Service, POW, Wounded, Wounded and POW, etc). The only thing was the lists were published with no reference to actual date of casualty, indeed published months later in some cases, with a few being corrected later again.

• The Times "Roll of Honour"

See also, for annotations on lists:

• Handwritten Codes on Casualty List Records - Solved

 

Cheers Danny
That was quick! I was expecting my query to sit a while. There's definitely more info than was on the Army lists published in newspapers, i.e. actual unit and date.

Was there any introductory explanation for the volumes?
How many volumes are there, even roughly? How are they filed: by month, year, or ...? Any nod towards Theatre for instance?

and finally
Do you mean they were updated on the original page, or on a later page?

 

Hi Pete,
No worries.

If you look at Danny's first example in post no. 2, there are categories of Killed in Action & Wounded; but other attachments have Previously known to be Wounded now Died of Wounds, ... Dangerously ill... Previously POW now not POW ... and it gives the date for the event in many cases and has theatre at least. Although there are exceptions, I've not been able to find that much info in many of the appendices of regtl histories, nor even in war diaries. The Times and other newspapers, published lists but in a reduced format, no dates, no theatre, usually months after the event.

 

Good luck with that, sounds exciting.

 

a snippet from WO 162/205

So that's official confirmation of the differences between Casualty lists published in e.g. The Times and the lists under WO 417 which were probably as (a ) above and collated from info produced by Casualty Branch (Officers) and the various Records Offices (Other Ranks).

 

History of Casualty Branch (Liverpool) (Cas L) | The National Archives
Casualty Branch had to issue clarification a few times to 2nd Echelons etc, so I imagine that it had identified problems with the way casualties were categorised, e.g.

Sub. No: 735
Subject: Casualties - classification of.

Some confusion exists with regard to the classification of casualties reported from Theatres of War. These classifications are as follows:-

Section I. "Battle" Casualties.

Physical exhaustion (i.e. exhaustion brought about by prolonged exertion, lack of food, drink and sleep, occurring on a field of battle due to causes other than disease or inquiry and necessitating admission to hospital).

Blast
Blast Injury
Concussion due to blast


Section II. "Non-battle" Casualties.

Exhaustion (i.e. heat exhaustion, or exhaustion due to cause other than those classified as "battle" casualties - e.g. exhaustion due to disease or injury).

Anxiety neurosis
Hysteria
Shell-shock (This term is strictly incorrect, but when employed by reporting authorities it should be regarded as indicating "sickness" and not a "battle" casualty).


G.H.Q. 2nd Echelon have been instructed that when reporting casualties in Section I the letters "BC" will be shown after the nature of the casualty; the term "Sickness" will similarly be shown when reporting casualties in Section II.

Officers i/c Records should not report on A.Fs W.3016 those casualties listed in Section II except in cases of death when distinction should be made by insertion of the terms "BC" or "Sickness" as necessary.

45/Gen/5296 Cas.(L )




Sub. No: 996
Subject: Casualties - Classification of.

In future casualty classifications (additional to the normal) will be as follows:-

Section I "Battle" Casualties
Blast
Blast Injury
Concussion due to blast

Section II "Non-Battle" Casualties
Exhaustion (all cases of nervous and physical exhaustion will be classified as "Exhaustion.")
Anxiety Neurosis
Hysteria


With reference to Field Service Regs, Vol. 1, 1930, Chapter V, Section 26, para 3, the term "Sick (NYDN)" will not be used in future. Such cases will be classified as "Exhaustion".

On no account will the term "Shell-shock" be used in diagnosis or in describing a casualty or case of sickness.

The above instructions have been forwarded by the War Office (A.G.1.A ) to Overseas Commands concerned, but it will naturally be some appreciable time before they can be implemented by G.H.Q. 2nd Echelon.

Officers i/c Records will not report on A.Fs. W.3016 those casualties listed in Section II except in cases of death.

With effect from 14 February 1944, no cases of "Exhaustion" will be reported to the War Office Casualty Branch on A.F. W.3016 as Battle casualties, even though so reported by G.H.Q. 2nd Echelon. The latter will be notified of any such corrections in order that the records maintained Overseas may be amended.

Circular Instruction No. 735 dated 24 May 1943 is cancelled.

45/Gen/5296 A.G.1. (Records)



Sub. No: 1027
Subject: The following WOCINDOC which had been issued is republished for general information.

Battle Accidents.

Accidental injuries sustained in action or in proximity to the enemy are battle casualties, as are also accidental injuries which are not sustained in action or in proximity to the enemy, provided they were caused by fixed apparatus (e.g. land mines) laid as defences against the enemy, as distinct from those employed for training purposes, and provided the personnel killed or injured were on duty and not to blame. Other accidental injuries sustained in forward areas but not in action or in proximity to the enemy will not be regarded as battle casualties, but as "Battle Accidents".

"Battle Accidents" will not be reported to Home Authorities except in the case of:-
Death
Dangerously ill
Seriously ill
cases involving the loss of an eye, a limb, hand or foot, when the words "Battle Accident" will be used in the report.

A.F. B.117 will not be used in the case of "Battle Accidents" except where the accident is caused or contributed to by gross negligence of the injured person, or misconduct falling short of wilful self-injury, but the casualty will be published in Part II Orders and entries will be made on individual's documents, the words "Battle Accident" being used in both cases.

45/Gen/6901 A.G.1 (Records)

 

The only refs to Indian Army which I found in the same TNA file as the previous examples are:
History of Casualty Branch (Liverpool) (Cas L) | The National Archives

Sub. No: 378
Subject: Personnel attached or transferred to Indian Army.

the Under Secretary of State for India has now been requested to arrange for Part II Orders concerning all personnel attached or transferred to the Indian Army to be sent to Officer i/c R.A.O.C. Record Office, irrespective of the Regiment or Corps from which a soldier is detached or transferred, or to what branch of the Indian Army transferred or attachment.

Officer i/c R.A.O.C Records will arrange for distribution to Officers i/c Records and Regimentals Paymasters concerned.

Sub. No. 281 of Circular of Instructions No. 38 is cancelled.

(B.M 1054/41 A.G.1 (Records) ).



Sub. No: 379
Subject: Casualties to Personnel on India Unattached List.

In order that post casualty payment may be promptly dealt with, all cases of Death (including Killed or Died of Wounds), Missing or Prisoner of War, in respect of personnel serving on the India Unattached List, will be notified to the address shown below, stating:-

(a ) Particulars of Casualty.
(b ) Name and address or next of kin.
(c ) Date next-of-kin was notified of Casualty.

To be notified to:-
The Under Secretary of State for India,
Military Dept.,
India Office 4, Central Buildings,
Matthew Parker Street, Westminster, London, S.W.1.

This notification is required in addition to the usual casualty procedure for such casualties.

(Misc. B.M/844/Cas.(L ) A.G.1. (Records) )


Sub. No: 448
Subject: Casualties to Personnel on Indian Unattached List.

Reference Circular of Instruction No. 52 Sub. No. 379 dated 26 June 1942.

Copy of the notification sent to Military Dept. India Office, will be sent to:-

Accountant General,
India Office,
Bromsgrove School,
Bromsgrove, Worcestershire.

(Misc. B.M./84/Cas. (L ) A.G.1. (Records) )


Sub. No: 835
Subject: Responsibility of Officers i/c Records in respect of personnel on India Unattached List.

The normal responsibility for documentation and notification of casualties to next-of-kin remains with Officers i/c Records for all personnel on India Unattached List, except Warrant Officers Class 1 (both substantive and War substantive) who are removed from their Corps, vide KR 1940 par 285. Documents for such Warrant Officers are issued to the Royal Hospital, Chelsea (vide KR 1940 para 1727 (xi ) ) and all responsibility concerning them passes to the Indian Authorities.

Circular Instruction No. 776 dated 9 July 1943 is cancelled.

( Cas(L) Misc B.M. 844 AG.1 (Records) )


Sub. No: 1368
Subject: Responsibilities of Officers i/c Records in respect of personnel on India Unattached List.

1 . The documents of substantive Warrant Officers Class I, who are removed from their Corps vide KR 1940, para 285, are passed to the Royal Hospital Chelsea in accordance with KR 1940, para 1727 (xi ) and all responsibility concerning such Warrant Officers passes to the Indian Authorities.

2 . The normal responsibility for documentation and notification of casualties to next-of-kin for Other Ranks on the IUL who are not borne on the permanent cadre remains with Officers i/c Records. In order that post casualty payment in respect of these Other Ranks may be promptly dealt with, all cases of death (including Killed or Died of Wounds), missing, or Prisoner of War will be notified to the addresses shown below, stating
(a ) Particulars of casualty
(b ) Name and address of next-of-kin, and
(c ) Date next-of-kin was notified of the casualty:-

• The Under Secretary of State for India, India Office (Military Department), 4 Central Buildings, Matthew Parker Street, London, S.W.1.
• Accountant General, India Office, Bromsgrove School, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire.

This notification is required in addition to the usual procedure for reporting casualties.

3 . Circular Instructions, 379, 448, 835 and 947 are hereby cancelled.

Cas. ( L ) Misc B.M. 8544 A.G.1 (Records)