Three Most Important Battles During Ww2

Discussion in 'General' started by ghvalj, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The most murderous was Falaise, where in that pocket, Germans died in the most appalling conditions. The dead were so numerous that even the planes over flying the pocket..... were sickened by the stench of death....Of rotting bodies
    Sapper
     
    James S likes this.
  2. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Having seen the ground to the SW of Caen and followed the line of advance along those roads the distance to what was the pocket is not far - it can be driven in a realitevly short time.
    The names of the villages just shout their names out at you , the whole are was a killing ground which culminated in the Falaise Pocket - Normandy from start to finish was a hard fought and costly struggle , to which the cemeteries today bear witness.
    RIP , all who never got to go home.
     
  3. Passchendaele_Baby

    Passchendaele_Baby Grandads Little Girl

    Pearl, Falaise, Battle of Britian, Bulge, Midway. My five cents.
     
  4. Falmouth.boy

    Falmouth.boy Junior Member

    My top three would be Stalingrad, D-Day, and Pearl Harbour. But most of all Pearl Harbour because it took the Germans twenty years to build the bunkers on the the beaches of Normandy and the Allied troops took them over in less than a day.

    America was already helping the British before "Pearl Harbor"
    US troop ships, Yes commissioned US Navy ships, were transporting British troops to the Middle East before 7th december 1941. My father, a british soldier was on a US Navy troop ship en route for Basra on that day. They stopped at Capetown but the decision was made to continue, and the ship was diverted to Singapore. Unfortunately, most of the british troops were probably captured at Singapore.
     
  5. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Falaise. Blood soaked Falaise.
    Carnage! Bloody carnage.
    For here is war at it's most evil, this is where all the press reports and tales of courage in war, are stripped naked of any kind of veneer of patriotism, or humanity. For this was the real horror of war, and at its bloodiest. Destruction, utter and complete destruction, it is very hard to describe the scene in words.

    The roads blocked with dead horses still harnessed to the carts they were pulling, swollen with feet stuck up in the air. German soldiers dead, sometimes one on top of the other, further on, groups of German dead lying in twisted and grotesque positions.

    Tanks that finished tilted in crazy angles against the side of buildings, mobile guns and armoured troop carriers destroyed. Artillery twisted and abandoned. The whole paraphernalia of war turned into a massive mangled mess and covered with Normandy dust. Some soldiers burned as their vehicles caught fire.

    Religious statues destroyed, one very poignant sight was that of a life size statue of Christ with his hands spread wide in supplication. But, with both hands blow off. This went on for miles as we chased the fleeing Enemy towards the hell that awaited them at the neck of the Falaise gap. The Germans used any method to try and escape, in some areas it was not possible to cross the road for German dead.

    The mighty Tiger tanks blown to smithereens and scattered in every direction. Wall to wall death, smashed houses and buildings with the roads between with so many dead it was difficult to walk, men half out of tanks and cars, burned alive before they could get out, blackened figures fixed in the position of trying to get out their vehicles, some even had their hand on the car door handles and fixed in that position as the flames overtook them.

    The stench of death hung over everything like a sickening pall, the sun had already begun to cause early decay. An inferno beyond comprehension! Covering everything was a thick layer of grey dust, almost as though the scene had been sprayed with grey emulsion.

    I remember very clearly, a young dead German sat on the road with his back to a grassy bank, just as though he was taking a rest and a short sleep, feet spread, hands in lap, head on chest covered in this thick grey dust, he looked as though he, and his uniform were fashioned from grey clay. But, his sleep would last for all eternity.

    All this, as a complete German army had been caught in the terrible trap of the Falaise pocket. As the noose closed round the top of the bag, the way out narrowed. The German army desperate to escape streamed through the neck of the bag, only to be fired on by our guns over "open sights" Sometimes at point blank range. Meanwhile the rocket firing Typhoons had a turkey shoot, the Enemy was subjected to continuous air attack with no help or protection, and caught in the open, the carnage was complete. For me personally, there was no satisfaction, "There but for the grace of God go I" Carnage on this scale was something we had not expected. I do not wish to see anything like that again.
    Just for your information
    Sapper
     
  6. BWilson

    BWilson Member

    The most murderous was Falaise, where in that pocket, Germans died in the most appalling conditions. The dead were so numerous that even the planes over flying the pocket..... were sickened by the stench of death....Of rotting bodies
    Sapper

    I spoke to a Frenchman running a museum on the hill where the Poles tried to plug the "neck" of Falaise (Mount Ormel?). He said the following year, the ground in the area was black -- covered with millions of flies that spawned as a result of all of the dead men and horses.

    Those must be awful memories.

    Cheers

    BW
     
  7. Stig O'Tracy

    Stig O'Tracy Senior Member

    Battle of Britain, Battle of the Atlantic and the Battle of Stalingrad (but really more importantly Case Blue and how Hitler altered it which ultimately resulted in his losing the campaign in 1942).
     
  8. Fuchs

    Fuchs Member

    1. Guadalcanal
    2. Operation Bargration
    3. El Alamein

    1 > Someone already said it, over there is where it really happened, in my opinion that is mostly the turning point in the Pacific.

    2 > Normandy landings (Overlord) are nothing compared to Bargration, it was a huge push forward by the Russians. Also lists in most succesfull operations in my opinion.

    3 > Again someone already said this but even if it was a minor front, the Axis in Africa where now running in a different direction, giving the Allies more resources to spend on the future big western front Stalin wanted.

    My top three would be Stalingrad, D-Day, and Pearl Harbour. But most of all Pearl Harbour because it took the Germans twenty years to build the bunkers on the the beaches of Normandy and the Allied troops took them over in less than a day.
    Somehow I get the idea this guy is a internet-troll but anyways, taking the bait:
    How can it be that the Germans spend 20 years building the Atlantik Wall in Normandy if they only captured that area in 1940? 1940 - 1944 = 4 years.

    Please not, this is in no particular order, I just picked the operations and battles I find the most succesfull/tide turning. And yes, there are many more battles that could fit in this list, 3 is too small.
     
  9. TheSaved

    TheSaved Junior Member

    Hello all! This is my first post.

    1. The Battle of Britain- Though I dont believe the Germans could have successfully invaded Britain, this is still a crucial battle just because it kept Britain in the war with its striking power intact. It insured that Germany would have to leave substantial forces in France and along Europes periphery thereby weakening the forces engaged in Operation Barbarossa.

    2. Midway- This battle is crucial because of the massive losses it inflicted on the IJN's carrier pilots. Pilots emerged from the Japanese navy flight program at a maddeningly slow pace. The quality of our air opponents dropped off drastically after this battle. Also, it gave the US the only thing it really needed in order to get the upper hand: a bit of time.

    3. Stalingrad- Largely because it made the Soviet victory at Kursk possible. :D

    I look forward to posting here. It looks like a good mix of international members. I'm always fascinated to see another viewpoint.
     
  10. machine shop tom

    machine shop tom Senior Member

    I can only name one that was particularly signficant, to me, anyway.

    The Battle off Samar. Had my dad been killed in it, I'd have been born a wallaby or something like that.

    tom
     
  11. ChrisC

    ChrisC Junior Member

    Interesting. OK I guess BoB has to stand. The major long term benefit being that Adolf never quite had the same trust in the Luftwaffe and left them out of a lot of plans that could have been very different. In the same way that he never used paras again after Crete.

    I'm surprised no-ones mentioned Malta. The German failure to take Malta was an inexplicable blunder and could very easily have changed the course of the war.
     
  12. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Senior Member

    IMO the "Battle of France" was the the one that defined the war, Poland was probably a foregone conclusion but had France held, and contemporary military wisdom expected it to, the war would have taken a completely different track, quite possibly we would have had no WW2 at all as the war would not have expanded beyond Western Europe (nearly certainly no Barbarossa and no African Campaign, possibly no Pearl Harbor).

    Second in line BoB and Moscow as the first large scale defeats of the German war machine. If I had to pick a Pacific battle Midway would be my choice but somethong like that was bound to happen sooner or later given the disparity in industrial output, the Japanese could not afford to trade losses on a near equal scale.

    In the Med Taranto was posssibly the most decisive event, the only chance the axis had of dealing a decisive blow to the Commonwealth forces was during the retreat from Greece, but with most of the Italian battlefleet out of commission the Luftwaffe by itself was not enough to prevent most of the troops making it back to North Africa to fight again.
     
  13. L J

    L J Senior Member

    I should say:the summer battles in the east(june-september 1941)when the Germans failed to eliminate the SU.
     
  14. martin14

    martin14 Senior Member

    Interesting. OK I guess BoB has to stand. The major long term benefit being that Adolf never quite had the same trust in the Luftwaffe and left them out of a lot of plans that could have been very different. In the same way that he never used paras again after Crete.

    I'm surprised no-ones mentioned Malta. The German failure to take Malta was an inexplicable blunder and could very easily have changed the course of the war.


    I was going to mention it, but you beat me to it.


    It is impossible to limit to 3 choices, too many to choose from.
    Majority opinion seems to be BoB, Stalingrad, Pearl.. etc.

    I'll take a different tangent, and see how long I last . :)


    1st I'll take Dunkirk over BoB; if the BEF had been destroyed in France,
    imo there would been a much louder call by the English for peace,
    and the BoB may have never happened. Their escape provided Hope to fight on.

    2nd Yugoslavia: The fight in the Balkans delayed Barbarossa for 6 weeks.
    If the Germans had launched 'on time', early May, they would have the extra 6 weeks advance, which you could envision capturing Leningrad and Moscow. Since the Winter Objectives of Barbarossa were principally
    to dig in along the rivers behind these cities, the picture in the fall
    of 1941 could have looked quite different.


    3rd The Battle of the Atlantic: without the defeat of the German surface fleet,
    Graf Spee in Argentina, Bismarck, the raid on St. Nazare to keep Tirpitz locked away in Norway, the fighting in the Atlantic could have been
    very different. Britain as an island would have been lost without the constant flow of materiel, food, and then soldiers provided from across the ocean.


    Finally, as an honorable mention for the D-Dayers, I throw into the mix Dieppe.
    All lessons learned concerning beaches, tactics, special weapons, timing
    and supplying an invasion force were learned from that raid.
    All other amphibious landings.. North Africa, Sicily, Italy.. all redrawn because of Dieppe.

    Without Dieppe, D-Day may have looked very different, and maybe not even successful.


    ok, got my steel hat on.. fire away :)
     
  15. Combover

    Combover Guest

    I'd like to add my 2p worth if I may. As many have suggested, it is far too difficult to keep it down to 3 so I may go over this limit.

    A) Dieppe. Even though it was originally canned by the British as too dangerous, the lessons that were learned from it were very helpful indeed when it came to planning D-Day.

    B ) Falaise. Even though the Allies did miss a trick by not closing the pocket sooner, it almost totally reduced the Germans ability to wage a proper war in France.

    C) Imphal / Kohima. Pitched battles against the Japanese where the British army stood their ground and weren't afraid to face the Japanese and fight it out with them.

    D) Stalingrad. It's important. It just is.

    E) El Alemein. The first proper ground victory by the British Army against the Nazis.

    F) Kasserine Pass. It forced the Americans to listen to the British Army and take advice on how things should be done - not simply thinking they know best.

    I could go on.
     
  16. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Limiting it to three then my three choices would be.

    1. Battle of Britain.

    2. Battle of the Atlantic (U-Boat menace)

    3. El Alamein Joint third as both a turning point for the Allies.
    Stalingrad

    Regards
    Tom
     
  17. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Okay, I'll bite.

    Here are mine:

    Russian invasion of Poland in 1939 - By taking Eastern Poland, that put the Germans 200-300 miles further away from Moscow and Leningrad. Think about how close and how quickly they got to those cities before stalling. Two hundred miles would have made quite a difference.

    Fall of France - Pretty much silenced the main internal opposition to Hitler and Co. for a while and allowed for an accelerated Barbarossa. I could argue that the Munich Agreement accomplished things along a similar line, but it was not a battle, per se.

    Pearl Harbor - This brought in the largest economy in the world fully into the war, while pissing it off immensely and to use a well worn phrase, filled it with a terrible resolve. Britain would not have lost to the Third Reich without the US in the war, but they would not have won either. Who would have fought and defeated Japan? No other nation was in a position to fully defeat the Empire of the Rising Sun.
     
  18. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    I'd like to add my 2p worth if I may. As many have suggested, it is far too difficult to keep it down to 3 so I may go over this limit.

    A) Dieppe. Even though it was originally canned by the British as too dangerous, the lessons that were learned from it were very helpful indeed when it came to planning D-Day.
    How many large opposed landings were there in the ETO/MTO between a small Dieppe and a large Normandy? I would suspect that a lot more was learned on Sicily and the boot of Itally than on that raid.
    B ) Falaise. Even though the Allies did miss a trick by not closing the pocket sooner, it almost totally reduced the Germans ability to wage a proper war in France.
    I can't see this. It only influenced the degree of how badly an army was beaten.
    C) Imphal / Kohima. Pitched battles against the Japanese where the British army stood their ground and weren't afraid to face the Japanese and fight it out with them.
    But how greatly did they influence the war? The British Army would have never ended up on Japanese soil by that route and Japan didn't have the ability by then to extend into Eastern India, much less hold it.
    D) Stalingrad. It's important. It just is.

    E) El Alemein. The first proper ground victory by the British Army against the Nazis.
    What about Alam el Halfa? The Eighth Army loses here and El Alamein does not happen.

    F) Kasserine Pass. It forced the Americans to listen to the British Army and take advice on how things should be done - not simply thinking they know best.

    I could go on.

    It also forced Kenneth Anderson to accept that the US divsions should operate as full divisions, instead of piecemeal as he had been utilizing them prior. The biggest problem faced by the US was Lloyd Fredendall and his over-bearing relationships with subordinate commanders, especially Orlando Ward.
     
  19. waroffice

    waroffice Junior Member

    Hello Waroffice here...
    What an interesting question and so many different answers.
    I agree somewhat with the answer put that WW2 was a such a big show and that it is difficult to pin it down to just a few battles.
    I personally would say that in view of the fact that our nation is one of the oldest democracies it was important that the Battle of Britain was won, however not sure I agree that it provided a staging post for the eventual invasion of France as Northern Ireland or some where in Southern Europe could be staging posts.
    The second battle is without doubt the Battle of the Atlantic as this was the supply chain that equipped the UK. But most important of all this battle enabled the codebreakers to make a significant breakthrough in breakinf the German Navel codes
    Finally I would settle for the Battle of El Alamein. This battle was best summed up in Xhurchill's speech. It showed the world that after being 'Alone' since 1940 our forces were now fighting with confidence and gave Rommel and Co a bloody nose and hence stemmed the tide in every quarter of the globe.
    (which incidently Monty relied on the codebreakers in order to direct the battle...thanks the the brilliance of the likes of Alan Turing)

    Chris
     
  20. Combover

    Combover Guest

    Okay, I'll bite.

    Here are mine:

    Russian invasion of Poland in 1939 - By taking Eastern Poland, that put the Germans 200-300 miles further away from Moscow and Leningrad. Think about how close and how quickly they got to those cities before stalling. Two hundred miles would have made quite a difference.



    It also put them 200 - 300 miles away from their proper defensive positions making them much more vulnerable to attack. It is debatable which would have been more beneficial to the Soviets.
     

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