The Murder of Five Captured RAF Officers. Warning: Graphic Images

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by Drew5233, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Wow, an amazing thread, thank you. :poppy::poppy::poppy:


    An excellent piece of investigation and fascinating to read, although the circumstances are extremely brutal.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Well^^
    I think tho photos are a bit to big.
    Which size should they be?

    Hi Stephan,
    You may be best to just post the links to imageshack, as these are going to bog a 40-posts-per-page thread badly.

    Or, resize them to roughly 1000 pixels across, like this (though that does compromise the readability somewhat):
    [​IMG]

    Best of all, run them through something to reduce the filesize, while leaving the pixels untouched.
    This one below is still the same size to view, but I've compacted the filesize from 3mb+, to 189k - That way people can click a few times to expand them to full size if they desire, and you shouldn't have trouble uploading c.200k files to the forum at several per post. c.3mb will likely crash the uploader here:

    p2210558.jpg-resize-file.jpg
     
  3. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    thanks von Poop.
    I´m sorry for the big pictures.
    How does the code look like for the last example you posted? It looks very usefull for my intentions, cause I want to upload also the whole trial.
     
  4. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    This thread is absoloutely excellent well done to all concerned,Pollux don't worry about your English i am English and i can tell you something your's looks better than mine.

    Regards Michael.
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    How does the code look like for the last example you posted? It looks very usefull for my intentions, cause I want to upload also the whole trial.

    That last one, I resized in photoshop to shrink only the filesize.
    If you haven't an image program with a 'save for web' option, & you're on Windows 7, you can resize pictures with a right click (if not, try 'image resizer' here Windows XP downloads - Microsoft Windows)
    Then upload 'em to a post with the paperclip icon above the posting box.

    More fulsome instructions here:
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/network-information/12816-how-insert-pictures-videos-into-your-posts.html
     
  6. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    lol


    Well, because of the photos, is this size o.k.? I couldn´t manage it to do it with the small size where in one click it appeares bigger.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Just looking at the files,Heinz Krautle's name is recorded as Kreutle and Krautle.Did the correspondence of 1949 refer to what might have been his adopted change of name from Kreutle to Krautle while in custody?.The motivation was clearly to put his past well behind him.

    There were many cases of war criminals who went undetected,which is somewhat different here and lived out their life (some were Vichy types in France) under assumed names.Some were uncovered but others were only undercovered after death and left behind documents linking themselves to their past and their true identity......digressing now.

    Cannot see if a case can be brought against the act revealing the proven facts of history.The man was tried in a legal court and found guilty of being involved in a war crime.He paid the penalty as laid down by the legal court but that does not mean that the deed should be struck out and maintained in an air of secrecy.

    I would have thought that the Klarfelds would have been similarly challenged when they were uncovering the deeds of Germans who had assimulated themselves,postwar into ordinary German citizens but with hidden secrets.

    Getting back to the documents,I notice the Deputy Judge Advocate General BAOR,was Brigadier, Lord Russell of Liverpool.

    Russell is better known as the author of two well publications,one which is relevant to this case and is one of the cases outlined by the author.

    "The Scourge of the Swastika" and "The Knights of Bushido",the latter being an account of the Japanese method of conducting warfare during World War 2 are Russell's work and although published nearly 60 years ago,the principles of conducting warfare, as best it can be regulated,are still with us today.
     
  8. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    Friday I will meet a german jewish man, called Gerhard Gelderblom.
    He is one of the local historians of Hameln.
    In Hameln, Max Köchlin, Wilhelm Niklas and Hans Knab were executed by the famous british executer Albert Pierrepoint Albert Pierrepoint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and I hope that I will have a look into the famous execution book of Albert Pierrepoint where he noticed the weights and sizes of the people who should be hanged and I hope to find the data of the people from pforzheim hanged by him.
     
  9. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    sorry...internet was broken and I had trouble with the german telekom.
    I got more informations, so I restard the first post of mine.

    Background is that the city of Pforzheim had a massive airraid in 23th february 1945 and was completely destroyed. The people who were bombed out were lodged in the villages around Pforzheim. From one of them, we have the first statement.
    In 17th and 18th of March, several Airmen from the RAF were shot down and brought to Pforzheim for inprisonment and 5 of them were brutally killed by a mob. 20th of April the french forces took the city of Pforzheim, a few days later, at the victory day 8th May the french were informed that something has happened.

    The first was Karl Trayer, a former social democrat, butcher and a housemate of one of the murderers. He first informed a former social democrat conseillor who after informed the french informant richard bannholzer.

    The statement of Trayer:
     
  10. pauldawn

    pauldawn Senior Member

    Brilliant thread!!!!!
     
  11. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    Three trials were made. I actual have only the files of the Pforzheim 1 Case.
    The accused were:
    Hans Christian Knab
    Wilhelm Niklas
    Max Köchlin
    Gustav Schmidt
    August Schmidt
    Gerhard Biedermann
    Gerhard Stahl
    Rolf Heil
    Heinz Kräutle
    Alfred Mohr
    Fritz Beyerle
    Gottfried Ehnis
    Wilhelm Hirschinger
    Eugen Mühlberger
    Paul Ecker
    Adolf Ludwig Hölzer
    Rolf Heil
    Gustav Brenner
    Karl Weissenbach
    Hugo Sorg
    Hans Metzenbauer
    Werner Faaß
    Wilhelm Jourdan
    (Kurt Kroll)

    Kurt Kroll was in the first trial but became ill an was sentenced in the Pforzheim Case II trial.
     
    RosyRedd likes this.
  12. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    Here are the rank, place and function of the people who were involved.
    Maybe someone can help me to translate some ranks into english.
     
  13. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    The crime scenes.

    Huchenfeld:

    This is the former "neue Schule". In the second floor the german Luftwaffe had several rooms and in the cellar sometimes Pows were held for interrogation and after brought to the POW camp in Ludwigsburg.
     
  14. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    August and Gustav Schmidt are not related to each other.
     
  15. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    Scene of Dillweißenstein

    This is the paperfactory where in the canteen the mob of hitler youths and SA men under the command of Weiss summoned and where Köchlin held a speech which made the young blood of the hitler youths boil. Unfortunately it was till now for me impossible to locate the canteen in the factory.
     
  16. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    You're doing great work with the citizens of the town!
     
  17. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    Let´s get more in touch with the british aircrew and their last flight which ended with the murder of five of them.
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  18. Pollux5

    Pollux5 Senior Member

    This is the log book of the flying fortress with the last mark of tom tate before he bailed out.
    Does anyone know what the letters under the word fortress means?
    Photo is from the 214 sqadroon page.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Does anyone know what the letters under the word fortress means?

    Yes, it's the letter of the aircraft. "BU" was 214's squadron code, so you would see on their B17s the following:

    BU, then the RAF Roundel (Kokade), then the individual aircraft's letter.

    Here's an example of BU-N:

    http://www.214squadron.org.uk/Graphics/Aircraft_Fortress_MK2.jpg

    In some logbooks the squadron code would be left out and only the aircraft letter used, which seems to be the case with the example you've posted.
     
  20. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    I think this is Gauleiter of Baden and Alsace, Rober Heinrich Wagner.
    Yes, well spotted. I think this is the actual picture:
     

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