The General Perspective

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by Charley Fortnum, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    On my way to bed, but I'll get some photographed soonish.
     
  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Here are some extracts.

    I don't know much about tanks, but the formation diagrams looked potentially interesting.

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

  4. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Well, after a hell of a lot of trouble, this book has now arrived:

    20211202_222839.jpg 20211202_222854.jpg

    The contents look promising (judging by sources and scanning alone so far), but as a production—and given an RRP in excess of £90—it's most disappointing.

    It isn't a genuine hardback book; it has hardboards but no dustjacket and the binding is glued, not sewn. The paper seems to be high-quality printer paper and the photographic illustrations are not printed on photographic paper, so the quality is poor—a couple are more or less worthless.

    This from Bloomsbury?

    They've even managed the wrong year on the copyright page: it claims it was published in 2022!

    Poor show.
     
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  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    There's an interesting review here of two books that were published around the thirtieth anniversary of the Fall of Singapore:

    First, Singapore: The Chain of Command by Major General S Kirby, who was appointed, in retirement, the official British historian for the Far East Theatre. This later publication was his personal interpretation.

    Second, Percival and the Tragedy of Singapore by Brigadier Sir John Smyth VC, the highly decorated general who commanded 17th Division during the Sittang Disaster and was a personal friend of Percival.

    The reviewer, an Australian Lieutenant Colonel, considers them side by side (page 46):
    https://researchcentre.army.gov.au/sites/default/files/aaj_283_dec_1972.pdf
     
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  6. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    I think this fits here, although it is about the brigade level of command and was found AM today, it is a 2021 Wolverhampton University PhD thesis and the long title (my added italics) is: 'Point of Failure: British Army Brigadiers in the British Expeditionary Force (France) and North Western Expeditionary Force (Norway) 1940 A Study of Advancement and Promotion' by Phil JM MCarty

    Link: https://wlv.openrepository.com/bits...McCarty_PhD_thesis.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

    The Abstract explains all on my initial reading:
    Long ago I heard Peter Caddick-Adams talk about the post-Dunkirk "shake out" of many BEF officers and Jim Storr in one of his books referred to career progression after Dunkirk. So for me something to read one day.
     
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  7. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    That's a most interesting document. He uses a couple snippets from my book, glad he found it useful. In regards to 1940, it's worth following up the higher commanders of 50th Division in that campaign.
    1. Giffard Martel, GOC. Commanded 50th Div back in the UK, where Monty, his corps commander, found him inadequate--"too nice," in Monty's words. He was shunted into a siding as commander of the RAC. Brooke didn't care for him either.
    2. Charles Massy, CRA. He didn't perform terribly well in the field in 1940, though his gunners did. In 1941 he became CRA Northern Command, then headed a sub-area, then retired.
    3. Richard Dawnay, Viscount Downe, 69th Brigade. His brigade was not officially attached to 50th Div during the campaign but nearly all the troops in it wound up under the 50th after 23rd Division was overrun. The records of Downe's actions in the campaign are obscure and they would be, because it appears that he ran away to England while his men were still engaged with the enemy. He came from a distinguished family and he'd been an aide to the king so instead of being stood against a wall he was shunted into a siding in West Africa.
    4. W.H.C. Ramsden, 25th Brigade. He did pretty well in France and took command of 50th Div after Martel departed. Later led a corps in 8th Army, not very well in my opinion. Monty agreed with me and sacked him. Led 3rd Division back in the UK, sacked again when Monty returned for OVERLORD, shunted into a siding in the Sudan.
    5. William Haydon, 150th Brigade. Did well enough in France and stayed in command thereafter. Killed in action at Gazala.
    6. Jack Churchill, 151st Brigade. Performed well, but did not stay in the field after 1940. After leaving the brigade he was given some pretty important technical and tactical appointments at the War Office and was also made an aide to the king, so he clearly was still regarded as a valuable officer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
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  8. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Ben Ritchie-Hook deserves better.
     
  9. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    At pg. 200 I stopped a skimming read. Two particular gains; the research options used - for officers only - described on pgs.. 45-49 and one previously unknown website: Culture Grid

    This is described on their website - in brief - as:
    The second was a reference to a book, on pg.49, cited as a thesis by Horton in 2009, when the author is Andrew Holborn and was published in 2010 as a book. Anyway McCarty writes:
    The book's title is '56th Infantry Brigade and D-Day: An Independent Infantry Brigade and the Campaign in North West Europe 1944-1945' and it has several excellent reviews on Amazon. The summary:
    Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/56th-Infantry-Brigade-D-Day-Independent/dp/1441119086

    There are two readily found threads on the brigade: The Essex Regiment 1944-50 (very short) and sad thread re a 56th Brigade commanders apparent suicide: 49th West Riding Division - Brigadier Ekins

    I will add an edited version of this post on the first thread.
     
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  10. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    This arrived today: the earlier of Smyth's two biographies—and perhaps the better one in terms of military coverage. It's a bit foxed, but the jacket looks good given the publication date (1959). Of course, I'm keen to compare and contrast the two accounts (of three written) of the Sittang Disaster. His earliest account, which also covers France 1940 (he commanded 127 Infantry Brigade), is Before the Dawn: A Story of two historic retreats (1957).

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    Interestingly, the rear of the jacket bears an advertisement from another author in whose work I'm interested: Sir Ronald Wingate. His own autobiography might be good, but I've been searching for a decent copy of his biography of Pug Ismay. He is, if I recall, a relative of 'that Wingate', perhaps a cousin or a nephew, though I can't immediately recall which.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
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  11. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Not perfect condition, but neat and clean and very affordable for a limited publication. The author commanded 5th Division during the Battle of France.

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    The former owner also stashed a small batch of newspaper clippings about the Green Howards in the back.
     
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  12. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Here's a request about an issue that, as Lieutenant Columbo would say, is bothering me:

    Has anybody seen any evidence of any correspondence between the Secretary of State for War, Sir James Grigg, and his subordinate Alan Brooke (i.e. the CIGS)? The lack of any apparent interaction between these two characters is really quite strange. Does Brooke mention Grigg at all in his diaries?
     
  13. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Grigg has his own memoir: Prejudice And Judgment, but I don't yet own a copy.

    I'm not at home to check, but if Grigg does feature in Alanbrooke's diary, it isn't heavily.
     
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  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    From AB Diaries
    Grigg's entry under ‘The Cast’
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    War Office meeting with Grigg & Paget, 1943
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    Index. Of course probably indicative of nothing more than a mention...
    66B61699-3341-4565-9753-028F9632B8C9.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
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  15. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Thanks Charley and dbf.

    It's interesting that in tank development Grigg worked with the DCIGS, Ronald Weeks, with Brooke not taking any direct or obvious role at all. I have a nagging feeling that the waywardness of British tank development and the absence of Brooke might be related.
     
  16. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Two strokes of luck: discovered the existence of this sixteen-page pamphlet, and found a copy much cheaper than expected (but still more than is strictly reasonable):

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    Subject (Commanded 1st Armoured Division from late 1940 until Monty binned him in mid 1943):
    Raymond Briggs (British Army officer) - Wikipedia

    The copy is inscribed by 'Nancy' and Arthur Charles (Gus) Edwards, a married couple. Nancy was General Briggs's daughter (and only child), and the couple worked together at Essex Records Office. Gus died in 1992 and Nancy joined him in 2009:

    Source:
    https://www.esah1852.org.uk/library/files/Essex-Journal-Spring-2009.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  17. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I picked up the not terribly well-regarded biography of Horrocks on Thursday in Canterbury and was finally united with my strangely rejacketed first editon of Neame's autobiography (Neame as in Shepherd Neame, the brewer).

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  18. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    This, in contrast, arrived today in the post and looks really good.

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  19. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    This arrived.

    Condition looked appalling, but it had a dustjacket (no other copy I can find does) and it cost just £6 including airmail postage from the UK, so I took a gamble.

    Win: after twenty minutes' careful work, I removed the masses of sellotape and yellowed plastic without damaging the jacket.

    Lose: the book really stinks (any advice?)

    Worst case scenario: I bin the book, keep the jacket and order a more fragrant yet jacketless book.

    It's kind of rare because only a single edition/impression was published.

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  20. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    He was quite an author: au="Molesworth, George Noble" - Search Results and his Wiki: George Molesworth - Wikipedia I note he retired in February 1945, aged sixty five.

    A little more on: Wayback Machine Curiously it notes no honours were awarded for his service.

    His personal archive is at the NAM: Molesworth Papers | The National Archives

    This book is now mentioned in 'Partition' by Barney White-Spunner (pub. 2017) reviewed elsewhere here.

    I would be interested if it is worth reading Charley. A copy is @ Oxford University, not too far away.
     

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