The Battles for Point 103 and St. Pierre (8th–18th June 1944)

Ian,

Here's an annotated version of your oblique photo with some grid points marked, using the 1943 1:25,000 GSGS maps (Bayeux 37 16 NW; Tilly 37 16 SW; Thaon 37 16 NE; and Cheux 37 16 SE), which hopefully will allow you to orientate yourself. The big plantation in the middle left of the picture is northwest of la Butte. Hopefully this helps, if you haven't already worked it all out.

Best wishes,

Tom

 

Just to the south-east of Le Haut Audriue, near to Point 103...

On modern maps it appears as - Ecurie de la Croix - (Stable of the Cross) Horse boarding stable.

I was wondering if there were any WW2 contemporary accounts regarding / describing these particular buildings and this particular area, during June and July 1944?








Google Maps



Google Maps

 

Re. The Battle for St.Pierre - 9th, 10th-12th June 1944...

There are a few maps of the area - with some unit placements - on some given dates - here -

Ref. [D Day – DLI Friends](D Day – DLI Friends)

D Day – DLI Friends

i.e.







Nb. I don't think I've seen - i.e. there - or elsewhere - as yet - for specifically where these placement references are sourced from - but it was perhaps war diaries or some specific books.

I think it's interesting as I have often heard people talking about i.e. "Point 103" and sometimes there is some confusion - that perhaps creeps in - as to what was "where" when - and especially i.e. that when people now - or even then - refer to fighting on "Point 103" they actually mean a far wider area - and one which was not necessarily even centered on "Point 103" specifically - given how things were placed and where units were actually situated.

 

Newcastle Evening Chronicle - Thursday 15 June 1944 - re. " British armoured laargers - on Point 103 " northeast of Tilly-Sur-Seulles and Saint Pierre.

 

This is a very informative thread. I have a question, though, for anyone who has dug into this engagement. Brigadier Hargest, the NZ observer with XXX Corps, wrote that at 0700 on 11 June the 8th DLI "while under mortar fire...panicked and some of them went back to their previous day's start line." The 8th DLI war diary says nothing of this. Is there any truth at all in what Hargest says? I don't have a copy of his report to hand.

 

Bearing in mind that these AI overviews evolve - here's one current iteration.



Sometimes they can be handy, I think, to find where such trends are, and what some of the online sources currently say.

Re. "What did Brigadier Hargest, the NZ observer with XXX Corps, write about the 8th DLI on the 11th June 1944 ?"

Google Search

Points to a prior thread on here - i.e. 50th Infantry Division

Though typically a lot of the references are to short excerpts of some of the things he said - rather than specific links to the "entire report" and - interestingly - counters with other short excerpts of other things he said which may be contradictory. Even with the full report perhaps it's a case of finding quotes in it to quote from, and there being a variety there that has more nuance than those that would have used it to point to only one of the things he said can show.

Granted that words can be hurtful, purposefully picking only a selection of someone else's words to prove a point is such a common thing and typically when someone finds what they are after to prove a point they "of course" just stop there and don't tend to dig any further and see if there is evidence then to disprove it subsequently. They just leave that to whoever "posts next" ;-)

4.2K tontonan · 79 reaksi | The remarkable story of James Hargest - New Zealand's Observer on D-Day and leading figure of the New Zealand National Party. Lest we forget. | By Tim van de Molen MP | Facebook

 

"On the morning of the 18th June 1944 at ST PIERRE, L/cpl Hindmach's ( Sic should be Hindmarch's) company was clearing enemy from an orchard overlooking TILLY-SU-Seulles. A spandau was giving particular trouble and as his platoon was nearly out of ammunition, L/Cpl Hindmach decided to stalk itand knocked it out with 36 grenades, killing the crew od three.

His platoon was then ordered to withdraw owing to shortage of ammunition. L/Cpl Hindmach carried a Sjt 1/4 mile to the SBs and was later instrumental in evacuating 11 other casualties under enemy fire.

On this and on other occasions L/Cpl hindmach has shown outstanding qualities of courage and leadership."

the citation for the Military Medal awarded to 4463904 L/Cpl Thomas William Hindmarsh 10th Durham Light Infantry.


My question is simple, but unfortunately I can't answer it myself. Can anyone identify the orchard referred to in the citation? any info regarding the 10th DLI attack on Till would be most welcome.

 

Refs.

10th Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry, War Diary June 1944 - 70 Brigade

10th Battalion Durham Light Infantry June 1944, War Diary » Normandy War Guide

And the latter sites a few map references in that area. Including "a quarry at 855678" and "Montilly wood" (in ref. to events later around 22d6m1944).

However "a wood practically on D Coy objective" gets referred to - without - I think - really specifying in an obvious way where this was. From the map there are clearly possibilities - so I guess a close(r) reading of the war diary could help.

Looking at the map contours some of the woods are "below" St.Pierre - so would not be an orchard overlooking St.Pierre, so that at least, somewhat, narrows things down, perhaps.

I'd probably try to look at some of the photo recon of the area also, as the (near) contemporary WW2 map(s) can sometimes differ somewhat in where they place trees and orchards (being more sparsely wooded) can sometimes not even appear.

I have some of the photo recon for this area, but it might increase the number of possibilities, rather than help to further narrow them down.

 

Thank you to all who have assisted me, I am hoping to visit Normandy next year and visit St Pierre and Tilly.

I have now discovered that Sgt Hindmarch was captured on 19th August 1944