T/111928 Driver William Brynmore DOWN, RASC: POW, Stalag IIID

hi my uncle was captured in Crete and was moved to stalag III D. am looking to find information on what happened and if there was pictures his name was William Brynmor Down and service number T/111928. He was a driver which I found out. It's very hard to find information on this. Any help would be greatful


Mod edit
Moved from Stalag IIID to create a dedicated thread

 

hi first of all thank you for doing this for people its a lovely thing to do.

second is william brynmor down he was captured in crete in ww2 and went to stalag III d and im looking for more info on that. if there was any pictures of him when he was in the war


thanks suzzanne

 

His Service Records have been transferred by the MOD to TNA Kew
Name: W B Down . Service number: 111928 . Date of birth: 3 February 1917 . | The National Archives
Reference: WO 423/142671
Name: W B Down.
Service number: 111928.
Date of birth: 3 February 1917.

 

Hi Suzzanne,

Please see attached the actual Liberation Questionaire completed by William post captivity.

Regards

Bruneval

 

Hi Suzanne. My father Frederick William Atkey was also captured on Crete and taken to Berlin and held in Stalag IIID.

He taken across from Souda Bay to the mainland and forced to march for miles but I don’t know any of the names of any towns etc. I know they stopped in a big hanger to sleep and a bucket was placed in the corner of the building and they were told to use that if they needed to relieve themselves. However if they did so, the soldiers shot them.

They continued walking but I don’t know how long for or where to. They were put into railway cattle trucks, like the Jews were transported in. They were thrown a bit of bread I believe and some water. There were no buckets or anything in there for them to relieve themselves. They were taken in those trucks to Berlin and when the doors were open I believe only a few walked out, some had died and many suffered from dysentery. My father managed to walk out.

I know more about the camp and the living conditions etc, eg they walked to work on the railways in clogs and locals hid potatoes for them along the railway line. They picked them up in their pockets and secreted them. When they walked back into the POW camp which is Arbeit Macht Frei above the entrance, they cooked up the potatoes on the small iron stove in their hut somehow but when they called the role call in the yard in the morning, they all had swollen faces and hands etc from the starch in the potatoes.

I know my dad used to smash the ice on the top of the trough in the yard and wash himself because everyone had lice and he encouraged others to do so. He also squeezed all the lice from the seams of the filthy clothes they wore to try to avoid disease and did so for others that were in there with them. I would be so interested to know where the railway line they worked on runs and whether it’s still there? He was relaxed by the Russians in 1945 at the end of the war. He weighed 6 stone. His photos were lost sadly some years ago - if anyone had any photos I would dearly love to see them.

Dad sadly passed away in 2013 but mum is still with us aged 97 and has some memories of his conversations etc. he didn’t speak of his time there until much later in his life. He did manage to contact some men from the camp but I think all of those have passed now. He appeared on ‘Hotline’ with Mary Parkinson and we do have a video somewhere of the moment she brought some of the men from the audience.
If anyone has any information I would love to know as I want to visit Berlin and see if I can find any railway that he built. Also any museums or similar that might contain any information about the camp etc.

Thanking you in anticipation. Jane

 

Hi there

my father Frederick William Atkey was captured on Crete and marched and taken on cattle truck on the trains to Berlin. He was in Stalag IIID and worked on the railways at zehnsdorf.
Do you have any liberation information such as that provided to Suzanne, for my father please?

Any information you may have would be fabulous. I know the soldiers ran away and, the gates were opened and dad found a bike and he and two others left the camp. They arrived at a village and heard tanks, ducked into a house as they were unsure whose tanks they were. His two friends stood up to look out the window and the Russian tank fired a shell and it killed the two men he was with. He buried them there. He ended up with Americans and it was them who looked after him and evacuated him to England some weeks later.

That is what I know as well as some other information about their journey to Berlin etc. he didn’t speak of it very much but I recall and have documented some of the information. I know someone in the camp made a radio.
Anything you may have I would love to receive or know more about.

My mother aged 97 is still alive and very much with us, she remembers some of the stories dad relayed but he didn’t speak much about it. He weighed 6 stone when he returned home.

My father was in the Engineers and was a mechanic on Matilda tanks. He went to Egypt and also went to France and was evacuated from Dunkirk.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Kindest Jane

 

Jane,

Welcome aboard. Bruneval is regularly here, hopefully he will appear soon and see your request. Suzanne has not logged in for two months.

Can you please add your father's Date of Birth, place and Service Number if known. That will help. Do you know which unit he was in?

His name and number have not appeared here before your post(s).

Is this your blog from 2009? Surviving World War II - Fred Atkey's Story: My Fathers Story Yes, I know it does not cover what you seek for after he became a POW.

We always recommend applying for a subject's Service Record, it is the definitive record of his service, although it can take up to a year to arrive. Details on a Private Message (PM) next.

 

Good evening Jane,

I have attached the Liberation Questionnaire for Army Service Number 7622310 Craftsman Fredrick William Atkey of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME). Craftsman is the equivalent rank to Private. I believe this is the right man as he was captured in Crete and was a POW in STALAG IIID and Zernsdorf as you described in your message.






Regards

Bruneval

 

Ah thank you very much.
Frederick William Atkey. Born 10.04.19. I don’t know his service number but will find it and I will apply for the information you mention.

Yes I started to write that for dad and of course fully intended to keep going but go incredibly busy with businesses sadly and didn’t continue. Dad passed away in 2013 aged 92 - he was an incredible man.

Thank you for taking the time to read the post etc and to try to help myself and mum really nail his journey through the war.

I know that he volunteered for the propaganda camp as he had heard they fed you well and looked after you. He didn’t help them at all but took the good food for the week or however long he was there. I know they used to put on plays at the propaganda camp as I saw photographs - which we now don’t have. So disappointing and upsetting but there you are.

Many thanks. I will be back with the service number when found. I have telegrams from stalag IIID advising my grandmother that he was alive and held there. I will also see if I can find those and post them. They are very moving when you think she had waited a long time to know he was even alive.

kindest
Jane

 

Jane,

Bruneval added his Service Number 7622310 in Post 9; one less thing to do. He was originally enlisted in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps (RAOC) before early 1942 (when the Army system changed).

His Liberation Questionnaire has his unit as:



That looks like 2nd Ammunition to me.

 

Hi there

wow that’s amazing! Thank you so very much. Mum is delighted to receive this as am I!

I will keep going.
Kindest
Jane

 

Hello Jane.

Additional information for you, entirely derived as a result of the combination of your super-detailed posts at #5, #7, and #11, along with the good work of forum member "Bruneval" in posting your father's Liberation Questionnaire at #9, for all of which I am very grateful as they enable answers to be worked out, deduced, and arrived at.

Nothing Special about this methodology, anyone with the will and observation skills would reach the same results that I have. It's only a matter of reading and considering the information, the statements, presented.

Unfortunately along the way you get the red herrings (from some; see post #12 "That looks like 2nd Ammunition to me"?!?!! How they get to that given all the information that you and Bruneval have taken the time and trouble to provide is beyond me. Some just can't change habits of a lifetime).

Here you are Jane, from your and Bruneval's work.

Your father captured on Crete.



His unit; "REME".



A combination of those two items Jane, plus your detailed posts gives, at No.3 (a big clue in the fact question No.3 has "Division" in it!

And logically, with the information already provided by you and Bruneval, this brings us logically to your father's answer; "2nd Armoured Division".



Your father would have been in the 2nd Armoured Division's 1st Light Armoured Brigade and travelled to Greece, and then Crete, with this brigade.

A small step along the way for you Jane, and such a long response in an effort to help newcomers (as yourself) to avoid the red herring pitfalls and distractions that can be found (from some) along the way.

As is said, the devil's in the detail. Folks just have to pay attention and act on that

If you search 1st Light Armoured Brigade in Greece and Crete you'll find lots to read up on Jane.
I wonder, with your father being a "Motor fitter", if your father worked on Roy Farran's 3rd Hussars tank at anytime?

Kind regards, good luck, always,

Jim.