Swordfish Used To Drop Medical Supplies at Dunkirk

Discussion in '1940' started by Drew5233, Aug 3, 2010.

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  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    [​IMG]

    At first I thought of the aircraft. I then decided the aircraft was far too small to carrying any medical supplies of significance.

    A quick search of my naval books of ships involved at Dunkirk drew a blank but I did come up with this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Swordfish_(61S)

    Assuming this is the 'Swordfish' its the first I've heard of submarines being used at Dunkirk itself.
     
  2. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi, Just a point regarding "Swordfish". In 1942 before being called upfor the army I was making the undercarriages for the Fairy Aviation Swordfish biplanes at Thomas Greens Factory in Leeds. They were known as "Stringbags" by those who flew them. They attacked and sunk one of the large German battleships I believe. Top speed around 100 miles an hour (with the wind behind!) Ken Smith. 5th D.C.L.I. 1942 to 1948.
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Ken,

    I believe that may have been the Bismarck along with a few ships in the Royal Navy. Can you remember the address in Leeds where you worked? It might be interesting to see whats there today.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  4. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Andy,
    Here you go.

    Thomas Green & Sons

    One more Leeds engine builder can still be found today, though this one is on the northern edge of the city centre on North Road. The office building of Thomas Green's Smithfield Works still survives. This building was originally the Smithfield Hotel before being converted to the works offices, the works that once stood behind the office building have all been demolished. Note the name T. Green & Sons on the clock tower. The building is fitted with a blue plaque.
    Picture of the former Thomas Green Offices
    Close up of the clock tower
    Blue plaque marking Smithfield works
    Back to Contents

    South Leeds Industrial Heritage Trail

    Regards
    Tom
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I guess it is a possibility that she could have been there. This info from Uboat.net:
    HMS Swordfish (N 61) - Submarine of the S class - Allied Warships of WWII - uboat.net

    20 Apr 1940:
    HMS Swordfish (Lt. P.J. Cowell, RN) fires 6 torpedoes against the German merchant Santos (5943 GRT) about 17 nautical miles south-south-east of Larvik, Norway in position 58º48'N, 10º19'E. All torpedoes fired however missed their target.
     
  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I'd suspect that a vessel would not be named in a telegraph message. Might 'Swordfish' not just be a code word ?

    The puzzle is that I've not heard of any sort of aerial drops by the allies. The Germans were certainly parachuting supplies and fuel to their forward units during the advance.
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    RAF Lysanders dropped supplies in Calais.

    Fair comment ref code word but Op Sec doesn't really seem to be that important with that file and on the other messages-everything seems to be sent in clear. Certainly well worth bearing in mind though.
     
  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Swordfish were bombers (torpedo or normal bombs) and several squadrons were operating in the area so my money's on the planes not the sub. The idea of air-dropping supplies was not revolutionary, even the 1929 cavalry training manual has a paragraph on it!

    According to the RASC (who provided air despatch units later on):
    ... an attempt was made , as an emergency measure, to supply the BEF at Dunkirk in 1940, using converted civilian airliners.
    Not heard that one before, wonder if it's mentioned in the HMSO pamphlet on the civil airlines?
     
  9. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Drew, the RAF had a number of drop canisters of various sizes that mounted on the standard clips of an ordnance pylon ;) Here's one on the stub wing of a Lysander...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    In 1940?

    I just can't imagine a Swordfish carrying enough medical supplies for a Corps QM Dept. I imagine the main shortage would have been Morphine and the like and suspect the bottles would break on impact?
     
  11. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    In 1940? Yep, that inner carrier was spec'd for it in the Lysander. It was one of their Army Co-op roles, dropping supply canisters.

    The problem in 1940 was that the canisters were SO small! :lol:
     
  12. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    On the 26 July 1940, the submarine Swordfish sank the torpedo boat Luchs part of the escort for the battlecruiser Genisenau off the south west coast of Norway.

    On the 7 November 1940 the submarine Swordfish was sunk by a mine off St.Catherine's Point, Isle of Wight, outward bound on patrol. All 41 crew died.
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Where there any land based Swordfish on the south coast during 1940 and would they have the range to reach Dunkirk? I know that there was no aircraft carriers involved in Op Dynamo, the biggest shipp being a AA Cruiser.

    Update:

    I've just checked ATB's Battle for France and ten Fairey Swordfish were lost during the campaign. Any significant details to follow.
     
  14. slaphead

    slaphead very occasional visitor

    In 1940?
    [snip]
    I imagine the main shortage would have been Morphine and the like and suspect the bottles would break on impact?

    Depends on the drop speed and height.
    One of the "experiments" we did a Jacob Kramer college in Leeds was to drop an egg from the roof of the building (4 very high Victorian storeys) with only one sheet of A4 paper and one sheet of A4 cardboard to make a protective wrapping. We all designed different containers and about half the eggs survived. We then had to take them to the top floor and lob them into the carpark. Again about 50% of the initial survivors survived. Then we had to post the remaining good ones back to ourselves at the college. Strangely none survived this but we did get a rather nasty letter from the Post Office asking us never to do that again :rolleyes:

    So, so long as they made decent shock protection for the contants and didnt youse Royal Mail, the contents stood a chance of getting there ;)!
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Two Swordfish lost from 825 (FAA) Squadron, Detling. Shot Down on 24 May 1940.

    Three Swordfish lost from 825 (FAA) Squadron, Detling. Crashed, Ditched, Shot Down on 28 May 1940.

    Five Swordfish lost from 825 (FAA) Squadron, Hawkinge. Shot Down on 29 May 1940.

    All seem to be being used in the bomber roll as Andrew mention.
     
  16. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    HI Drew, I think I have been beaten in reply to location. It was and the building is still in North Street, Leeds. We also made "Gang Mowers" which I have seen in many places overseas cutting grass on airfields. Thomas Greens were originally known for steam and motor rollers. The lathes and other machines were old and worn, belt driven, and as an apprentice it was difficult to use these machines. The Government paid for a new building and new machines from America for the accurate tolerancs required for aircraft work. The swordfish was a small biplane with a underslung torpedo, hardly a bomber but more like a fighter launghed from a carrier. Veteran Ken Smith.
     

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